Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List - February 2001

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Our deepest thanks to Maxou Heintzen for this fabulous photograph, taken at Saint-Cloud near Paris in 1957 by an unknown photographer.

The following are the archives of the Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List, sponsored by Alden and Cali Hackmann of Olympic Musical Instruments.

 

 
 



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Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 09:49:02 +0900
From: Hiroshi Hasebe <hasebe _at_ jim.seikei.ac.jp>
Subject: [HG] HG

Dear HG people,

(^0^) Hello! I wasn't expecting this kind of 
serious reaction to my question about "new" 
and "strange".  Thank you anyway.

I just wanna add that I was just THINKING about the new 
strings, and haven't tried yet.   It is fun to imagine and 
discuss about it.  Only If it is a big fun and I can not stop 
trying it, I MIGHT try without hurting the instrument.

Remember that at first I asked about the strength of wheel.
It was the biggest thing I matter; how I can TRY without
destroying the precious instrument from Hackmans.  Minstrel 
HG was (and still is and will be) a really "Wheel of Fortune" to me 
and I can not stop respecting these two craft people.

Not only about some festivals, I also wanna know If someone
has tried something new, please.   Back to work.

hiroshi
HASEBE, Hiroshi
Administrative Staff
Center for Asian and Pacific Studies
Seikei University
http://www.seikei.ac.jp/university/caps/index.html

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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:56:49 -0500
From: Catherine Keenan <cath _at_ pathcom.com>
Subject: [HG] How strong is the wheel?

well, if you want to talk about strings under this heading, Hey Stefan, 
when do you ever not want to try something extraordinary with a hurdy 
gurdy?  That's one of the best reasons to play -- what else would justify 
all the trouble they are?

Hiroshi,  pressure on the wheel is not the issue -- it's pressure on the 
chanterelle bridge. Valentin Clastrier used steel guitar strings in the 
80s, and they cut into his chanterelle bridge pretty badly and he had to 
have it replaced I think.  So that might be too much. But Savarez Corelli 
nylon violin or viola strings might be fun to try; they are more mellow 
sound, like a cello.  Several people have begun using an octave G tuning -- 
I think Isabelle Pignol was first to try it.  It's made with one regular G 
melody string, and an octave lower G Savarez Corelli nylon string, the 
bottom G violin (or viola string if you need the length.)

Gut strings are notoriously difficult to find, and come with astonishing, 
sometimes blood curdling pricetags, in North America.  People aren't 
ashamed to admit to trying everything from nylon guitar strings to fishing 
line instead.  (I have been around that route and gone back to ordering 
Savarez.)   I can tell you from experience that wound guitar strings don't 
really work because they are too bumpy; nylon guitar strings and fishing 
line are too smooth to hold rosin or cotton.  In Toronto, nobody stocks 
hurdy gurdy strings, but they do have gut strings for harps or baroque 
violins or violas.  Gut Harp strings from Pirastro can long enough for two 
chanterelles, so you cut that cost in half. My friend Ben here uses 
viola-length strings because his instrument is really long.

My  electro-acoustic Siorats have a short enough key box that I can use 
violin-length strings, and I love the sound of wound nylon that sings like 
warm velvet.  I also sometimes tune strings a whole tone lower than pitch 
so I can bend the notes more.  I doubt I'll be using nylon strings on my 
new (old) Pajot, but you never know.

Stefan, I would respectfully suggest that it's still a hurdy gurdy no 
matter what the strings are made of -- in fact the 21st century hurdy gurdy 
is being defined by each and every one of us, every time we turn that 
thing.  Turns out this low G tuning is probably the tuning from the baroque 
period called "La voix humaine", somebody told me.  Perhaps through 
experimenting we're just rediscovering what was forgotten.

Go for it, Hiroshi!
cath

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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:20:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] HG


I apologize to you, Hiroshi, for not replying to your post earlier. 

I certainly don't oppose the idea of using a flatwound guitar string on
the basis of "tradition". ;-) 

Flatwound strings (or round-wound/ground, but these are very rare
for guitar) should be fine for hurdy-gurdy, because they are very
smooth. Though they are not "traditional", I like them on my Les Paul,
because they give a smoother sound with the left hand, without the dreaded
"scritch" of round-wound strings.  Consequently they are not as
"bright".  For the HG this is probably not a disadvantage.

There are several areas which you should consider.  

First, what note are you hoping to tune to?  I don't have my string
tension spreadsheet in front of me, but it's on the computer at home.  I
can tell you that I think that the tension of a steel string is going to
be fairly high, but it depends on what note you're aiming for, and what
diameter string you're using.  With these two pieces of information I can
calculate the tension, and tell you if it is likely to have a bad effect
on the instrument.  

Second, I expect that the ball-end on the string will be held by the hole
in the tailpiece, but to be safe it might be better to make a little round
"washer" of leather to pad the ball where it touches the underside of the
tailpiece.  There should be no problem with the tuning machines - they're
designed for metal strings.  

Third, the metal string is likely to be of a smaller diameter than the
0.94mm gut string that is on the instrument now.  Consequently it will
probably slide very slightly deeper into the triangular slot in the
bridge.  I would suggest starting off with several paper shims in place
and removing them one by one to get the right amount of string pressure
on the wheel, instead of adding them.  This will save the wheel from any
danger of damage.  

Finally, while you're doing this shimming-down, cotton the string as soon
as possible to prevent any wheel damage. The wheel can withstand being
rubbed by a metal string for a little while, but not for long, and
especially not with a high string pressure.  (This is, after all, what one
is doing when recottoning the low drones - having the metal rub the
wheel, not the high string pressure.) 

Alden 

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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:35:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] How strong is the wheel?


On Wed, 31 Jan 2001, Catherine Keenan wrote:

> Hiroshi,  pressure on the wheel is not the issue -- it's pressure on the 
> chanterelle bridge. Valentin Clastrier used steel guitar strings in the 
> 80s, and they cut into his chanterelle bridge pretty badly and he had to 
> have it replaced I think.  So that might be too much. 

Good point.

Our bridges are made of maple, either hard rock maple or Western bigleaf
maple.  Hard rock is pretty hard for a maple, bigleaf is softer.  
European makers are often using sycamore, from the same family. None
of these will stand up very well to steel strings at high tension, because
the surface area is significantly smaller than on an equivalent gut
string.  Not all of the string tension is transmitted downwards into the
bridge, but it's enough to cut into the bridge over time. 

With this in mind, I'd suggest that anyone who finds that they enjoy the
sound of steel strings get a small piece of ebony or fossilized ivory or
bone installed in the chanter bridge where the string crosses.  These
materials will hold up much better under the higher pressure of the
string.   

Alden

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Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:36:59 +0900
From: Hiroshi Hasebe <hasebe _at_ jim.seikei.ac.jp>
Subject: [HG] strange HG


Thank you for a lot of good advices.  I will think about them when i get home.

Here are my CRAZY ideas about strange HGs, coming up to my mind while I 
was eating curry noodle for lunch.  Hope nobody feels bad.

1) Cello-type HG and Contrabass-type HG; the body size will be bigger and
stronger
than the normal one to hold a bigger tension of fat strings.  And, yes, a
fat sound (hopefully).

2) a big and thick wheel w/ microphone in it; a big wheel with round (if
possible, 
just an idea) pickup in it.  Of course, the strings will be the ones for
electric guitar.

3) Open keybox; no keys. But you use the slide bar instead.  Actually, I
use my
thumb to apply to drone strings.  It came from a bottle neck play of guitar
player, and
sound like a fighting chicken.

Hiroshi


HASEBE, Hiroshi
Administrative Staff
Center for Asian and Pacific Studies
Seikei University
http://www.seikei.ac.jp/university/caps/index.html

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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:41:05 -0500
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] La voix humaine,


Is the argument over already ?
 Like Matt , I am thankfull for removable wheels and bolted tangents,
but
I understand Stephan's concern , just have a look what happened to
the chromatic accordeon , the électric organ , the hawaďan guitar  and
other instruments that were " improved" to the point that they lost
their
soul .

The way I see it , the experiment should try to answer a definite
problem,
 the price and avaibability of gut strings is clearly one , but do we
need
HG with 12 drone strings to play in all tonalities ?

  The voix humaine string is a very interesting exemple , it was a 3th
chanter
string , made of brass , used in the 16 and 17 th cent.  , it was
discarded
by the 18th cent , makers .  At the last St Chartier there was a
reconstruction
of the instrument seen in the De La Tour paintings ( with the sound box
carved
from one piece of wood , and a voix humaine chanterelle ) , to bad
nobody played it while I was there .

Has anybody heard such an instrument ?


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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:45:25 -0500
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] But , the music ?

Funny , we  are posting at the same time .
Tel me Hiroshi , do you have some music in mind that needs these
modifications on the HG  , or do you plan to build first and the
music will come later ?


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Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:22:21 +0900
From: Hiroshi Hasebe <hasebe _at_ jim.seikei.ac.jp>
Subject: [HG] Yes , the music!


Actually, both.  These crazy ideas are just ideas, but one thing I want
my HG to do is to create a bigger and more clear and fatter sound while 
I play with my band.

But, still my HG is good enough.  And, one side of me loves something
experimental, and it has nothing to do with music actually, just my habit.
I hope I cam apply it to my music, but still can not control it.

Relaaaaaax.  And not an argument but a discussion. Or is HG too sacred 
to be a target of easy curiousity?  

By the way, Henry, I love the chromatic accordeon , the electric organ, 
and the hawaiian guitar.


HASEBE, Hiroshi
Administrative Staff
Center for Asian and Pacific Studies
Seikei University
http://www.seikei.ac.jp/university/caps/index.html


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Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:22:34 -0800
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] strange HG

If you are tired of reading about this topic, please press delete now.
.................................

Well there might just be a few more of us that play both traditional and
experimental music and instruments, so read on..........


Hiroshi,
I can see that you have interest in experimenting with sound and musical
instruments.

I suggest a quick click to this web site.

http://www.windworld.com/emi/

It is the "Experimental Musical Instrument" web site.

Here you will find a lot of interesting information on all kinds of
instruments.
Plus back issues of the Experimental Musical Instrument Journal, books,
CD's, software, electronic pickups, preamps etc.

I would highly recommend the CD and the book that goes with it called
"Gravikords, Whirlies & Pypophones".  In the book are interesting articles
on famous musical experimenters like Harry Partch, Don Buchla, Arthur Ferris
etc. I think that you can also find this at Amazon.com too.

And when you go to Paris you must check out the Music Museum there. You will
find some nice examples of unusual instruments including a Bass viol that
you need climb up a  ladder to play because it is almost 12 feet tall.

The Hurdy Gurdys that we play today are the results of many experiments over
hundreds of years.

Did anyone see the unusual Hurdy Gurdy That Kurt Richman brought to St.
Chartier last summer? In one body it had 2 wheels turned by one crank. It
had 2 keyboards that could be played individually or both at the same time.
I think that you could really call that one an experiment. I have pictures
if anyone is interested.

Sometimes it is good to understand the science behind things. I recommend
these books as a good foundation for anyone that wants to have some
direction in their experiments and a understanding of music and sound.

One of the books that everyone reads and translated in to just about every
language:
"On the Sensations" of tone by Helmholtz

"The Acoustical foundations of Music" by Backus

And "Science and Music" by Sir James Jeans.

And now back to tuning my Hurdy Gurdys..........

r.t.

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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 08:42:58 +0100 (CET)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: [HG] La voix humaine, old(s) and new(s)....


--- Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca> wrote: 
 
> The way I see it , the experiment should try to
> answer a definite problem,
>  the price and avaibability of gut strings is
> clearly one , but do we need
> HG with 12 drone strings to play in all tonalities ?

Maybe...since "usual" gurdies can just play 3 or 4 of
them and you'd like to play Webern with your HG (why
not? a friend of mine was an excellent banjo player
and he loved Bach so he used to play some partitas for
banjo solo).

It depends on music you like to play.
Did Segovia need a Marshall tube amplifier? Probably
not....
Do you think is possible to play in Woodstock (sorry
for the spelling...) with an unplugged gut strung
guitar? yes, but without the audience in front of
you...

As far as I'm concerned I love a 6 gut strings gurdy
(often less than 6...) but I play baroque music
(sometimes earlier than baroque) and I dont think that
hurdy-gurdy is a kind of "Cremona violin": if you like
hurdy-gurdy and you need to play "different" music you
need different gurdies. That's all.

"Different" means just different, not better, not
worse.
(Nevertheless, I love the sound of ebony "traversiere"
and I hate the sound of modern silver  flutes :o).


About  "The voix humaine", my first gurdy was a De la
Tour with 3 chanterelles (g, g, G), sometimes tuned in
"organum" (mostly g, d or c, G) and the sound was
terrific for some kind of music.
Lot of Galician gurdies are tuned this way

ciao

=====
Marcello Bono

my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045

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Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 10:07:18 +0100
From: s.r.neumeier _at_ gmx.de
Subject: Re: [HG] strange HG



I did not expect to start such a long conversation about the topic but
anyway your comments were interesting.


> Hirosh Hasebe wrote:
>
> Here are my CRAZY ideas about strange HGs, coming up to my mind while I
> was eating curry noodle for lunch.  Hope nobody feels bad.
>
> 1) Cello-type HG and Contrabass-type HG; the body size will be bigger and
> stronger
> than the normal one to hold a bigger tension of fat strings.  And, yes, a
> fat sound (hopefully).

You are right, and it really has a fat sound, even if it seems to be a
little bit bulky while playing. Yes the Cello-type HG exists. K. M. Riedel
builds such HG´s. Once I heared him play one of this things on a market
here in Munich.

R.T. Taylor wrote

>Did anyone see the unusual Hurdy Gurdy That Kurt Richman brought to St.
>Chartier last summer? In one body it had 2 wheels turned by one crank. It
>had 2 keyboards that could be played individually or both at the same 
>time. I think that you could really call that one an experiment. I have 
>pictures if anyone is interested.

Yes I would be interested in the pictures as I only saw this instrument
during the construction phase in Kurt Reichmann´s workshop.

Apart from that, how can it be that it is so difficult to get gut strings
in the US?? Ok not all music shops in Germany have them but there is
always a way to get them and they are not expensive, too.

Stefan

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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 23:48:32 +1100
From: Earthly Delights <garden _at_ earthlydelights.com.au>
Subject: [HG] New Website for Earthly Delights

For those of you interested, Earthly Delights has just uploaded
completely new web pages with information, graphics and MP3 sound files
from their lastest CD & dance book production.
If you enjoy listening to an exhuberant blend of folk/world dance music
that crosses traditional boundaries, featuring medieval and modern
instruments, then please do visit us at:
http://www.earthlydelights.com.au .
Constructive comments for the webmaster are warmly welcomed!
Please also note our new contact details:
garden _at_ earthlydelights.com.au          http://www.earthlydelights.com.au
 
Warmest Regards,
Aylwen Garden 

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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 19:55:34 -0000
From: Neil Brook <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: [HG] What's on in California

My wife and I are visiting California from the 21st March to 6th April.
Primarily to see our recently emigrated daughter in Laguna Bay. Our
itinerary is not yet finalised and I was wondering if there are any events
of interest during that time. I'm sure there are plenty enough wonderful
sightseeing locations but it's always good to take in some music and it
would be great to meet other list members.

Neil


http://freespace.virgin.net/hurdy.gurdy

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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:15:46 -0700
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] strange HG

Balázs Nagy already makes a Hungarian HG that is tuned an octave 
lower than the standard type (which is already a fairly large 
instrument). I haven't heard one, but he does sell them.

-Arle
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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:14:22 -0700
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: [HG] One other thing

I just recalled that there is an instrument that might be of interest 
in light of the discussion of bass and cello HGs.

The instrument is called a tromba marina and is a large bowed 
monochord with sympathetic strings (apparently up to 50!) and a 
buzzing bridge.

A good overview can be found at:

http://www.gmm.co.uk/ai/tromba.htm

Also relevant is:

http://www.organicdesign.org/peterson/tromba/tromba_lecture.html


-Arle

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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 23:59:08 +0100
From: René Meeuws <meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl>
Subject: Re: [HG] Octave G tuning


Van: Catherine Keenan <cath _at_ pathcom.com>

> Several people have begun using an octave G tuning --
> I think Isabelle Pignol was first to try it.  It's made with one regular G
> melody string, and an octave lower G Savarez Corelli nylon string, the
> bottom G violin (or viola string if you need the length.)

Hi Catherine,

I don't think Isabelle Pignol was the first to try octave G tuning!
Certainly there were several types with such tuning in history. Between
1980 to 1982 I had lessons in France from Nanou Rallet; at the same courses
also taught Evelyne Girardon, playing a Bleton with an octave G.
Rallet was a student of George Simon, who build 12 HG's in the fourties and
fifties. She played one of his masterpieces: an instrument with this octave
G tuning (and with a lot of ingenious capo's and mechanisms to remove
strings while playing). BTW: George Simon was the one who introduced the
French
Baroque repertoire in the HG revival in the seventies.

Greetings from Holland,

René Meeuws
meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl


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Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:23:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] strange HG

--- s.r.neumeier _at_ gmx.de wrote:

> > I did not expect to start such a long conversation > about the topic
but anyway your > comments were interesting.

Yes and good thing is was a discussion instead of an argument, because
everything said was absolutely right. Before we get to far away from
this, I'd like to interject an aside to Hiroshi (Gobusatta shite-imasu):
Take a look at Dennis Havlena's projects. This sort of thing would be a
lot less worrisome to experiment with.

Mata-ne,
Roy T.


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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 08:18:42 +0100 (CET)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: [HG] SIMON Octave G tuning


--- René_Meeuws <meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl>  wrote:  
 

> Rallet was a student of George Simon, who build 12
> HG's in the fourties and
> fifties. She played one of his masterpieces: an
> instrument with this octave
> G tuning (and with a lot of ingenious capo's and
> mechanisms to remove
> strings while playing).

Hi Rene

and thank you for remind me about Simon's gurdies.
I met Claude Tailhades in 1986, when he was one of the
few baroque HG player (Claude is dead some years ago)
and his instrument was a Simon.
his Simon was a two chaterelles gurdy, with a low G,
but thanks to a smart capo sistem that allows you to
change from a chanterelle to the other while you're
playing, it was possible to play 3 octaves range with
a 2 octaves keyboard (of course, using ONE chanterelle
at time).
Another capo sistem was able to change the pitch of
drone and trompette strings (in 3 different steps, if
I remember) in order to make modulation during the
performance.
To be true it was the smartest "new" gurdy I've ever
seen.
Do you know if someone is making Simon's gurdies
today?

ciao

=====
Marcello Bono

my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045

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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:10:25 +0100
From: René Meeuws <meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl>
Subject: Re: [HG] SIMON Octave G tuning


Van: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>

> I met Claude Tailhades in 1986, when he was one of the
> few baroque HG player (Claude is dead some years ago)
> and his instrument was a Simon.
> his Simon was a two chaterelles gurdy, with a low G,
> but thanks to a smart capo sistem that allows you to
> change from a chanterelle to the other while you're
> playing, it was possible to play 3 octaves range with
> a 2 octaves keyboard (of course, using ONE chanterelle
> at time).

As far as I know Tailhades played an old Simon as well as a new
reconstruction. Which one did you hear? For there is a very big difference
between the originals and the instruments that were build in the eighties by
a collective of makers under the name N.O.M.I.S. (notch, notch, know what I
mean?)

> Another capo sistem was able to change the pitch of
> drone and trompette strings (in 3 different steps, if
> I remember) in order to make modulation during the
> performance.
> To be true it was the smartest "new" gurdy I've ever
> seen.
> Do you know if someone is making Simon's gurdies
> today?

No, I don't. To be honest, it sounds hard but I' m not sad you can't hear
them (the new ones!) anymore. In my opinion these instruments were less
subtile and fully unable to play Baroque music (they were recommended for).

Met vriendelijke groet,

René Meeuws
meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl

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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:31:19 +0100 (CET)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: [HG] SIMON Octave G tuning


--- René_Meeuws <meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl> ha scritto: > 
 
> As far as I know Tailhades played an old Simon as
> well as a new
> reconstruction. Which one did you hear?

I don't know, it was a kind of so called  "Henry III"
model, the same you can see in "villanelle de paris"
recording.
As far as I'm concerned, the only "right" gurdy to
play baroque music is a "baroque" gurdy, I think that
a 6 strings, 2 octaves gurdy is much more than enough
for that....
Even if I don't need it, I like the Simon arrengement:
to be able to play 3 octaves with a 2 octaves keyboard
is not a bad idea, so is the possibility of changing
the keys of the drones during the performance.

Then we can discuss about the sound and the way of
playing...

ciao

Marcello


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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:58:53 -0500
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: [HG] From Maine, I hate the sound of the Hurdy gurdy..


Why am I so much missing it??  Why do people really like the sound of the
Hurdy Gurdy??
Is it just someting that really has to grow on you??  I have been trying for
a year and dont feel any closer to
liking it.  Do you have any suggestions??  My Husband loves the instrument.
I feel like it sounds like an instrument that just never really made it.

Please help if you can

Luara

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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:13:46 -0700
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] From Maine, I hate the sound of the Hurdy gurdy..

I suppose it's something like bagpipes. My neighbors heard me playing 
my Bulgarian pipes and came out and said:

"What's the difference between a bagpipe and an onion? -- No one 
cries when you cut up a bagpipe."

Seems like you either love it or you hate it, and liking bagpipes is 
a very good predictor as to whether you'll like hurdy gurdies or not.

Part of the problem is that we (collectively speaking in reference to 
people of cultures deriving from Western Europe) aren't used to the 
sorts of tonalities that drones impose any more. If you went back 
four hundred years or so, however, people would be asking how we can 
like the sorts of things that are common now. Imagine trying to 
explain Britney Spears or some other teen idol to someone a few 
hundred years back. They'd think you were daft to even try (and they 
would be 100% correct to assume so!). But you wouldn't have any 
trouble justifying a hurdy gurdy or a bagpipe to them.

Regards,

Arle

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Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:24:22 EST
From: DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com
Subject: [HG] New member


Hi,

I just joined this list and was told to introduce myself.

My name is Jake Conte and I play guitar, mandolin and electric bass in a
duo called Castle Keep.  We've been performing traditional English, Irish,
Scottish and Welsh songs in a progressive style since 1981.  Our main
influences were Fairport Convention, Steeleye Span and Pentangle.  At
times we have a percussionist available.  

My fascination with the hurdy gurdy began at a concert in New York City in
the mid 1980s while watching Jez Lowe and Jake Walton perform.   Jake
Walton played hurdy gurdy on a few songs.   Shortly after that I saw a
fellow named Heller demonstrate  the hurdy gurdy at a school in Staten
Island, New York.   He performed with his wife, Anicet, who also played
hurdy gurdy.   From these two performances it was love at first sight with
me and my hurdy gurdy --- which is still on order.   I feel like an
expectant dad awaiting anxiously for his "baby".

I'm looking forward to using my hurdy gurdy with Castle Keep as well as
other projects.  I would appreciate any help, suggestions and
recommendations.

Will I be the only hurdy gurdy player in New Jersey?

Jake Conte
---
Castle Keep on mp3:  www.mp3.com/castlekeep
Callithumpian Band on mp3:  www.mp3.com/callithumpianband
Celtic Disco mp3 radio station: www.mp3.com/stations/celtic_disco

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 16:11:13 -1000
From: Don V. Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: [HG] From Maine, I hate the sound of the Hurdy gurdy..

Try listening to Blowzabella recordings

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Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 12:00:55 +0900
From: Hiroshi Hasebe <hasebe _at_ jim.seikei.ac.jp>
Subject: [HG] From Maine, I hate the sound of the Hurdy gurdy..


Hello.  My wife always says something like this; "I can not do nothing but 
listening HG when you play it."  It is no problem and she can do the other
things while listening the play of my guitar, harmonica, accordion, and etc.,
 she says.  But with the sound of HG, she says, she can not "close" her ear.

I believe that the sound of HG has somthing to do with the nature of our
body.  

No matter you like it or not, you can not ignore it.

HASEBE, Hiroshi
Administrative Staff
Center for Asian and Pacific Studies
Seikei University
http://www.seikei.ac.jp/university/caps/index.html

= = = = = = = = = = = = =
           

Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 23:23:26 -0500
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] From Maine, I hate the sound of the Hurdy gurdy..

Hi Laura!

A reply from just down the road...  I sure hope you like the sound of the 
trombone better!!!

People who like it seem to have little trouble carrying on about why the 
like it.  Let me ask you this - can you say more specifically what it is 
that you DON'T like about it?  Is it something that you can elaborate on?

~ Matt


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew Szostak - Hurdy-Gurdies
7 Grove Street
Camden, Maine  04843
phone/fax: 207-236-9576
email: gurdy _at_ midcoast.com
website: http://www.midcoast.com/~beechhil/vielle
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 00:59:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: [HG] Love/hate relationship with HG


Laura said: 
 
> Why am I so much missing it??  Why do people really like the sound of the
> Hurdy Gurdy??

Not everybody likes it.  Some people flee.  Some people are fascinated
with it.  Like everything else in life: horseradish sauce, red wine,
Harley-Davidsons... there's a range of reactions to each of these.  Some
people are fanatics about them, some can't stand them, most are
indifferent.  

For me, I feel a deep pull at my soul when hearing (or playing!) this
beautiful instrument with the drones, the buzzing of the chien, and the
the crisp, clear melody on top of it all.  It can express such a range of
feelings and make such a range of sounds.  And there's a satisfaction also
for me to play it and ACTUALLY MAKE IT WORK - because it's a challenging
instrument to play: when it actually works correctly, it's very
fulfilling. (Makes all those hours of grumbling worthwhile...)

> Is it just someting that really has to grow on you??  I have been trying for
> a year and dont feel any closer to
> liking it.  Do you have any suggestions??  My Husband loves the instrument.

There are several issues here, I think.  The first is whether you're
listening to a really good recording by a good player on a well-tuned
instrument.  There are a lot of great recordings, and a lot of
dogs.  ;-) The next is if the style of music is right for you - if
you're a jazz person, having you listen to a really good Blowzabella or
Chavennee album or a recording of baroque HG is probably not going to do
it for you.  

Finally, perhaps you are not a person who is going to feel attracted to
hurdy-gurdy.  That's OK.  It's not for everybody, and there's no harm in
that. 

Cali and I are fairly convinced that a preference for drone instruments is
genetic.  ;-) 

> I feel like it sounds like an instrument that just never really made it.

Hmm - perhaps I have an appreciation of the history of the instrument that
brings me to disagree with you here.  But I loved the hurdy-gurdy before
I did any of the research, so it's doubtful that reading or hearing the
history of its roller-coaster ride on the popularity scale will be
helpful. 

I can say that people who are really into the instrument display a certain
addictive behavior. ;-) Our spouses and SO's either put up with us, or if
we're exceptionally lucky they also share the same addictive behavior.  I
am most fortunate to have a wife who introduced me to this habit and has
encouraged me ever since.  Others are not so lucky: I've known people who
had "the bug" but whose wife or husband wasn't supportive, and they ended
up selling their instrument, but with a very mournful expression.  It's a
sad thing to see.  

You could always take up playing button accordion, or the cornamuse, or
the bombarde, in self-defence. ;-) 

I hope you find this helpful. 


Alden 

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:15:23 +0100 (MET)
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ gmx.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hiroshi, moodern Strings, nwe HG

Hello list, hello Hiroshi,

In the specific part of the world in which I live it is common knowledge
which flat metal wound gut- nylon fiber- spiral-metal- core to use for best
pesonal sound and playability on HG. There is no mystery in putting cotton on a
string of any surface because of the use of liquid rosin as an "glue". 

The pressure on the bridge d o e s matter for the sound extremly and maple
as bridge material is also used on violins with metal core strings
succsessfully for many years... . 

if there is still interest on this topic left I can pass on informations on:
strings, string materials, low strings, setup for metal core strings, liquid
rosin, kapos, state of art on keyboxes and soundboard design.... 

Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria

PS:
I love my five chanter alto gurdy and use it succsessfully for playing
accoustically in french music sessions. Its open chanter tuning is G - c -
g - g' (G of chello, c of viola, g of violin, g of HG) plus g for second
note playing (not unlike as on a double keyboard). I have Drones in C/D,
F/G (with kapos) and a, I usually play in keys based on the four basic
notes D, G, C, F. It is not satisfiing to play in other keys because of
the tuning wich is build on four perfect fifths and related perfect
thirds, a tuning which is called "mitteltönig" in german (the perfect
thirds are divided into two equal seconds) and popular on harpsicord also,
but on HG it is better because one can intonate the pitches too low by
pressing the key a little bit more. The range of the keyboard is (basic
note g, open string lenght 36 cm ) g to a''chromatically plus b'',c''' and
d'''. My instrument has a build in preamp and is, often testet, imune
against feedback on heavy noise stage situations.  The maker
(www.weichselbaumer.cc) also offers a "tenor" instrument with 42 cm
chanter and three oktaves keyboard designed for "ancient music" (played
for example by Riccardo Delfino)

So, conclusion:
HG is an instrument "in creation" not a sacred final form, maybe it is a
family name, like "bowed instruments" . There are at least some severe
differing instruments that are called hurdy-gurdy now existing. Modern
style instruments designed for more chanters, electro-accoustic playing
not two but four major scales are state of art. Strings are no mystery but
a well encountered area. I know players who do play freejazz,
mediterranian pop, new music, Schönberg, balkan folk, regulary for years
now and there is no reason why not (I do not).

-- 
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria 

http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/

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Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 12:33:33 +0100 (MET)
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ gmx.at>
Subject: [HG] BordunMusik-Fest in Kremsmuenster, Austria

Hello all,

This years "BordunMusik-Fest" in Kremsmuenster, Austria will take place
from 26. to 29. of July 2001 (music classes start 25.). Our website
http://www.bordunmusikfest.f2s.com/ has not been updated from last years
program, I will give notice when this has happened.

The "BordunMusik-Fest" is a meeting of hurdy-gurdy and bagpipe players and

a festival for this kind of music, unique in its kind in the german
speaking part of europe. Concerts and sessions, instrument makers market,
dancefloor, classes for hurdy-gurdy (beginners and advanced levels),
bagpipes (Bock, Hümmelchen, Schäferpfeife), fife(Schwegel), percussion,
guitar, fiddle, ensemble, jewsharp, jodeling. Workshops for traditional
dancing. Musicians from Austria, Germany, Czech Republic, Hungary,
Slovenia, Slovakia, Italy, Switzerland ...

Kremsmuenster is a monastery found about 1230 years ago packed with arts
and history collections, a beautyfull site for a festival and worth a
visit anyway.  It is situated about 100 km east of Salzburg and 200km west
of Vienna, 30 km from the Alps. (next airport: Linz ;-) )

please pass on this informations to everybody interested, 
many thanks,

-- 
Comité Adalbert Stifter
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria 

http://www.bordunmusikfest.f2s.com/

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 16:35:04 +0000
From: "nostyle _at_ interlog.com" <nostyle _at_ interlog.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hiroshi, moodern Strings, nwe HG

Hello, Simon!

Thanks for your thoughts on strings/HGs/ and attitudes.  I feel like I'm
always saying that the HG is a musical instrument.  That's it.  It's our
instrument of choice for various reasons, but it should ideally have no
more stigma or associations than, say, piano, guitar, whatever.  You can
do anything you like to it!!  You can play anything you like on it!  Just
do your best.  Simple, really...

OK, now that's out of the way, please tell us about liquid rosin.  I've
never heard of the stuff.  Do you use it just on the strings for
cottoning, or on the wheel too?  How does it go on?  I somehow imagine a
kind of under-arm deodorant for hurdy gurdies.

Hope that you're well.


Best regards,

ben

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 11:36:51 -0500
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] The cultural aspect


  Or should I say the ethnic side of the interest for hurdy-gurdies ?

  I am very much delighted to see that many people who come from
countries or cultures where the HG is not a " national "
( for lack of a better word ) instrument  , sharing this common
interest with me . Obviously it is not an " easy" instrument
difficult to find , difficult to set-up and maintain .

  For some years , the makers and players of central France
have been very jalous of their art ,  some great french
players from other parts of France sometime  tell of the
chauvinistic attitude they faced when asking  the old masters
for advice .

  Much of it changed since the '70 folk revival in France and
seems to have spread to other countries , some re-discovered
( or rather , the public re-discovered) their  local HG traditions,
like in Sweeden .

   Now the HG is sailing away from the Baroque and Folk
coast to new, continents , jazz , rock and god knows what else.

  Good sailing !

Henry

= = = = = = = = = = = = =


Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 13:21:07 -0500
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: [HG] love hate relationship with the hurdy gurdy.

Thnkyou for all your kind responses,
Alden that you for your letter,  Just a question Do you really sound bad
when you first start playing??
That is really scarry to me knowing how much my dear Husband wants one and
if he ever really gets one
how much I will have to hear it.    PLEASE PLEASE dont ever sell him one....
For the sake of our Fmaily HA HA HA.
O.K.  I have really given it alot of thought as to want I donts like.

!.  It has an ear piercing sound no matter how soft it is played.
2. Is has a very different pitch that I am not used to.  O.K.  I cound get
used to that.
3. I think that the main reason for likeing such a different instrument is
for the shock value to people when you say I play the Hurdy Gurdy. 99.9
percent of the population would have no idea what you were talking about.

How did the Hurdy Gurdy gets its name??

Thankyou
Laura

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 12:04:29 -0800
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: [HG] Back again

The change of ISP has been put on hold for the time being so I am back,
still on the old one

Best wishes to all

George Swallow


= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 23:50:08 +0100
From: s.r.neumeier _at_ gmx.de
Subject: Re: [HG] Hiroshi, moodern Strings, nwe HG

> OK, now that's out of the way, please tell us about liquid rosin.  
> I've never heard of the stuff.  Do you use it just on the strings for 
> cottoning, or on the wheel too?  How does it go on?  I somehow imagine a 
> kind of under-arm deodorant for hurdy gurdies.

It is easy to produce liquid rosin yourself. You just have to put small
pieces of rosin into pure high concentrated alcohol and liquidate the
rosin in it (be sure to get pure alcohol. You should get it in the
drugstore. It has not to be the expensive medical stuff). The liquid rosin
is a very sticky solution and you can use it to "glue" the cotton to the
strings. You even need to do that if you want to play in a manner where
you have to turn the whell forward and backward so that the cotton will
stay where it is. (you will probably have fun changing the cotton :-)).
You also can use the solution on the wheel.  Take a brush that has the
same wide than your wheel. While turning the wheel you apply a thin layer
of the solution. Now you let it take time to dry (the longer the better,
maybe an hour). not the best solution but a hairdryer can help to speed up
the process but you have to be extremely careful that the heat will not
harm your hurdygurdy.

If you try to play now it will sound ugly. So the next step is to smooth
the wheel. First use extremely fine sandpaper afterwards use the finest
steel-wool that you can get (in Germany not under OOO!!!). Continue until
the sound of the hurdygurdy is clear. This procedure is quite useful after
you have "screeded"? (worked on your wheel so that it is round again) your
wheel and you want to smooth it afterwards in order to ensure that the
hurdygurdy sounds again clear, and full.

S. Neumeier

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:10:30 -0500
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Hiroshi, moodern Strings, nwe HG

Thanks, Steven, for the liquid rosin treatise. I watched
Simon use it, and it is really slick.

Wonder if that's what's in the little brown bottle than came
with my ninera from Slovakia....

judith

Judith Lindenau, CAE, RCE
Traverse Area Association of Realtors
http://www.taar.com
icq 6445710
MAILTO:judith _at_ taar.com

= = = = = = = = = = = = =


Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:37:42 +0100 (CET)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: [HG] love hate relationship with the hurdy gurdy.

--- zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com> wrote:

> Do you really sound bad when you first start playing??

not me....I was able to play HG arrengement of
Haendel's Messiah during my first tuning
session....unfortunately I wasn't able to sing the
soprano solo part....:o)

> I think that the main reason for likeing such a
> different instrument is
> for the shock value to people when you say I play
> the Hurdy Gurdy. 99.9
> percent of the population would have no idea what
> you were talking about.

99.9 percent of people spend the best part of life
driving the car or watching at TV's "big brother" or
"survivor"...it's not so easy to shock people like
that...
The main reason why I like such a different instrument
is that I liked to be a piano player but I got hernia
trying to transport the piano by bicycle :o)

ciao 

=====
Marcello Bono

my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:32:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] love hate relationship with the hurdy gurdy.

--- zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com> wrote:
> Do you really sound bad when you first start playing??

You don't have to. If he'd gotten the bug to learn
violin, clarinet, or the aforementioned trombone, you
would be in utter torment for a year or two.

When I starting making my first one, all my friends
were apprehensive. Apparently there were a couple of
rennys beating around the fairs with 'gurdies, but no
real idea what to do with them -which caused some
resistance to my project. When I got it finished, the
general reaction was enthusiastic and relieved. As
harsh as this one is (esp compared to the product of
the illustrious company we keep here): it is so much
better than what they'd heard. I only take credit for
diligence at cotton, rosin and keyboard tuning, -not
craft or musicianship.

Actually the HG sounds worse where you try to play
quietly. You dont lose any volume, and the tone
suffers. 

> How did the Hurdy Gurdy gets its name??

From people that don't like it.

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:50:58 +0200
From: Juulia Salonen <ottilia _at_ saunalahti.fi>
Subject: [HG] mics, amps + other e-devices


Hello,
How about starting a new discussion about electronics & vielles?
 
Im sure that out there are plenty of players who are using, or at least
have tried to use / been forced to use some electronic devices with
vielles. And it is/has been done with rock-bands, big scenes & larger
audiences and/or when recording hg. Or what?
 
I'm interested to gather (almost) all sorts of knowledge that has
something to do with vielle+ electronic processing of sound. That
"almost" means, that I wish the (hopefully lively) conversation that
follows will not get stuck into  argumenting whether this
vielle-amplifying & sound processing is ok or not at all ok...
Puristic opinions are just opinions, please lets let experience talk now.
It would be very useful (at least wallet-friendly) for all of us to know
what works and what does not. For instance, does anyone know how on earth
Valentin Clastrier (examples on cd Herésie) or Nigel Eaton (with Page &
Plant & those egyptian drummers...) manage to play with electronics?
 
The issue could be divided in several aspects: is the mic on stand or
connected to instrument and if it is connected, is it built-in or added
later... Are effects used for creative saound-metamorphoses or to produce
as natural sound as it was acoustically... This is endless!
 
After a week or two I could summarize all replys and send it to the list.
 
I could start this with 4 examples I have seen:
1. I play Swedish Groddalira, diatonic, three strings with following
equipment: 1 AKG gooseneck micro-mic placed very close (6mm) above
soundboard between trompette & chanterelle bridges. Next on the line is
Zoom 505- guitar multieffects processor. Normally I use it only in bypass
mode as kind of pre-amp.Only some effects are used, occasionally. My
amplifier is AR-Acoustic 30W for acoustic guitar.
Comments:The mic and its positioning works very well - surprisingly well
for the low drone too.This combination is very cheap and thus has its
limitations: feedback is a problem with stage monitors.
 
2. I saw Swedish Harald Pettersson use Ramsa- fiddle mic for his
Grandchamp (?) luteback-vielle. He screwed it to the tailpiece as it is
meant to with fiddles. I have no further information about his other
devices.
 
3. Swedish Totte Mattsson's equipment (group Hedningarna) was described
in folk-music magazine Lira 2/96: He has 5 Fishman contact mics for
fiddle in his Groddalira, (one for each string, I suppose)+ preamps for
each one separately and Boss ME-10 multieffects processor + Mackie
12-channel mixer. This is naturally pretty expensive...
 
4. German Till Ulman had 3 gooseneck mics above all three bridges of his
Eaton -luteback and a small mixer for all this. I only saw & heard him
play at Kaustinen festival here in Finland few years ago, so I have not
got any precise information about this. This one could be the mid-price
solution? Sound was really good: rich, not electronically dull, well
balanced, harmonious and especially the upper scale in his hg was
reproduced perfectly - An Eaton is known for its good quality in high
pitches, I've been told... Til could also easily adjust the balance of
strings from the mixer.
 
 
Yours
 
Esa Mäkinen
 
 
.............................................
Esa Mäkinen & Juulia Salonen
puh/ tel 09-8235318
 
katso/ kolla/check:
www.ihtiriekko.net

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:54:40 -0000
From: Neil Brook <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] mics, amps + other e-devices

I have experimented extensively with pickups, going as far as having
individual bugs under each string and taking the resulting 6 outputs into
a mixer. The sound was anything you wanted it to be as there was very
little crosstalk between strings so eq could be applied selectively.
I suppose at the end of the day it is a trade off between the search for
your particular sound and the desire to play amplified with minimum
distraction.

I have found that anything more than a transducer under the chanterelle
bridge and possibly one by the trompette starts to take over from the
music. Digital effects processors , in my opinion, take more away from
the sound than they add. The old Alesis Quadraverb is largely analogue
and seems to give better results.

I use a Trace Elliot acoustic 50 watt which is superb with it's own piezo
input.
 
Please note the new domain name. ( Same old stuff on the site!! )
 
Neil
www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 19:18:46 -0800
From: Jason <haku-jin _at_ home.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] love hate relationship with the hurdy gurdy.

Do you know who those couple of people were who were playing HG's?

If you are talking about California, it was none other than Ethan James
himself.  I've had the pleasure of hearing him busk at the San Luis Obispo
fair.  I heard him from two streets away, music wafted on the breeze like
the smell of freshly baked bread.  As I got closer the drone and buzz sucked
me in, so much so that I was nearly running by the time I realized where the
sound was coming from.  I sat in the dirt through his whole set, thanked him
and bought his tape.  I'm sure he thought I was a weirdo... but he was the
one playing the HG!

Only later did I realize that he was the same Ethan James that produced some
of my favorite music throughout the 80's.

Point of all this is, there is no hurdy-gurdy player who is a bad
hurdy-gurdy player as long as they have a genuine interest in the instrument
and the noise it can make.  There are only bad audiences... ;)

Jason

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 07:06:44 -0000
From: arthur nichols <arthur _at_ anichols.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: [HG] Re: state of the art on keyboxes 

re-    state of the art on keyboxes 

Simon 
I am interested in any info relating to making and construction of HGs.

Arthur
Wolverhampton UK

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 08:25:33 -0000
From: arthur nichols <arthur _at_ anichols.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: [HG] Re: Simon Wascher

Hi Alden

Would it be your intention to run Simon's topics on list or would we have to
deal direct with Simon?.

Arthur Nichols

if there is still interest on this topic left I can pass on informations on:
strings, string materials, low strings, setup for metal core strings, liquid
rosin, kapos, state of art on keyboxes and soundboard design....

Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:12:33 +0100 (CET)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: [HG] searching Riccardo Delfino


Hi list

I'd like to write to Riccardo Delfino, he gave me his
email the last time we met, but it doesn't work.

Anybody knows a "good" Riccardo's address?

Thanks a lot

=====
Marcello Bono

my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 01:24:34 -1000
From: Don V. Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] searching Riccardo Delfino

Hi Marcello-

Do you know Matthias Loibner? He works closely with Riccardo Delfino and
I'm sure knows how to reach him. Try Matthias at www.deishovida.com
Also Helmut Gotschy probably knows how to reach Riccardo...

Ciao-

Don

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 08:36:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: Simon Wascher

On Tue, 6 Feb 2001, arthur nichols wrote:

> Would it be your intention to run Simon's topics on list or would we have to
> deal direct with Simon?.

I'd hope to hear the discussion here. ;-) 

Alden F.M. Hackmann                        darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html    
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:01:00 +0000
From: Dave Holland <dave _at_ biff.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] mics, amps + other e-devices

On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 08:50:58PM +0200, Juulia Salonen wrote:
>    For instance, does anyone know
>    how on earth Valentin Clastrier (examples on cd Herésie) or Nigel
>    Eaton (with Page & Plant & those egyptian drummers...) manage to play
>    with electronics?

As far as I know, Nigel's gurdy has a mini-mike at the base of the
chanterelle bridge and a flat transducer pickup inside the gurdy
underneath the feet of the bridge. He feeds the outputs to a two-channel
mixer which then sends a mono signal to the mixing desk.

>    The issue could be divided in several aspects: is the mic on stand or
>    connected to instrument and if it is connected, is it built-in or
>    added later...

My own gurdy (made by Paddy Butcher) has a flat stick-on Accusound
transducer/pickup. It's stuck to the soundboard, approximately parallel
with the trompette string. You can't really see it on
http://www.biff.org.uk/dave/fest-noz.jpg but it's the dark blob just
visible above the wheel, disappearing behind the keybox. When I play
with a band I use that pickup and also a Shure SM58 microphone (or
similar) positioned above the chanterelles, about 4 inches away. That
gives the guy on the mixing desk chance to balance the trompette with
the melody.

> Are effects used for creative saound-metamorphoses or
>    to produce as natural sound as it was acoustically... This is endless!

I haven't yet tried effects, the gurdy sounds weird enough as it is!!

Hope that's useful (or at least interesting),
Dave

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 13:50:39 -0800
From: Katie Roe <taddea _at_ wizards.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] love hate relationship with the hurdy gurdy.

Laura

#1.   As to your first question regarding the ear piercing sound.  If only
you could have heard Marcello Bono play Vivaldi.  His instrument has the
most beautiful sweet sound, like honey dripping from a honeycomb.  

There are many type of music and many styles of playing. I just happen to
be one of those people who fell in love with the instrument when I was a
teenager and dreamed of having one for years.  I have attended gatherings
of the HG in the Northwest and heard everything from Medieval and Baroque
to French Dance music to New Age.  But there are times I just need to get
away from it (when I have a Migraine) and other times when I can't get
enough.  Much of the reason a HG may not sound good has to do with the
setup of the instrument.  It may also be that you would prefer a different
type of music.  I prefer Early Music and Baroque myself.  Sometimes the
"busy-ness of French dance music is too much for me.  

#2.   If you don't like bagpipes, you may not like HG.  Modern ears just
aren't used to drone instruments.  Most people either love bagpipes or
hate them. 

#3.   In some respects this is true.  Someone who is shy may find the
instrument too intrusive because is draws a crowd.  I have found it to be
a wonderful way to meet new people.  However, just because it is a rare
instrument doesn't mean that it should be ignored.  Of course I play a lot
of wierd instruments that you just don't see much of.  Most people will at
least have heard of a hurdy-gurdy even if they can't identify one in a
lineup, but most people have no clue at all to what a krumhorn, gemshorn,
shawm, psaltry, rebec, etc. are.  The hurdy gurdy fits naturally into the
music we play because it too was used in early music, just as it fits
naturally into the folk traditions of France and other cultures.  I would
rather play the instruments that music was intended for rather than
listening to transcriptions for modern instruments or (heaven forbid) that
it be ported over to synthesizers whose output is sterile and unfeeling.

You may never grow to love the instrument, but I hope you do.

Katie Roe 

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:37:29 -0500
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Amplification


As far as I understand it , there are two different roads to amplification
, one is to aim at the natural sound of the hurdy-gurdy but louder . This
will work for a good sounding instrument but will also amplify all the
mechanical noise ( bearing, keyboard etc )  of a bad one. It was very
difficult to do just a few years ago but with modern transducers it is
possible to get a good result , proof is the quality of modern CDs .

  Niguel Eaton told me that for studio recording a pair of audio
microphones is installed a few meters away , to get an " ambiance " sound.

  The other road is to use an instrument made on purpose , like a Sciorat
, with 3 or 4 sensors with different tone and volume controls ( inboard or
on a remote control box )  to wich can be added the whole variety of
effects used with electric guitars. Such a hurdy-gurdy was used by Daniel
Thonon on the " Ménage a Quatre " CD , ( track 9,12 and 14 ) especially on
track 12 ( le Cultivateur ) many people, to this day , think that the solo
is done by an électric guitar .There is still a lot of room for
experimentation in that field and I am very interested to see and hear
from it . ( In Fact Nicolas Boulerice is in the process of building one ,
here in my shop.:
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/xaime/vielle/construc/utopie.html , not finished
yet <g>) No doubts, the possibitities of such an instrument seems almost
illimited .

  Now comes the ethical problem , do you really want a HG MIDI controller
that will sound like a guitar or a piano ?

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:32:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] love hate relationship with the hurdy gurdy.


Katie said:

> Most people will at
> least have heard of a hurdy-gurdy even if they can't identify one in a
> lineup, but most people have no clue at all to what a krumhorn,
gemshorn,
> shawm, psaltry, rebec, etc. are.  

This was really driven home to me a few years ago at the Christmas Revels
in Tacoma.  One of the characters, the Fool, was doing a pantomime with
various objects, including the instruments which the band had left
onstage.  He picked up an krumhorn (one of our favorite buzzy instruments)
and was looking in it, etc.  This brought a few giggles.  When he put the
wrong end in his mouth and acted as if it were a snorkle, Cali and I were
laughing uproariously, but we soon realized that we were the only ones who
thought this was funny, because we were the only ones there who knew that
it was the wrong end...

I confess I don't recognize the gemshorn from the name. ;-) 

Alden 

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Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:36:49 -0800
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: [HG] HG MIDI

>   Now comes the ethical problem , do you really want a HG MIDI
> controller
> that will sound like a guitar or a piano ?


MIDI can be used for many things not just to imitate other instruments. We
use it in film and special effects work all the time to control mechanicl
and eletronic devices.

The reason for the creation of the MIDI Hurdy Gurdy that I am making is
first as a practice instrument since I can play it with head phones and
second, as a quick way to create music notation. I do not play piano or any
other MIDI controller.  I would never have the patients to write music by
hand. And the third reason is to document playing style and technique. It is
like a Reproducer Piano not a Player piano. It can playback the music in the
style of the person that played it. And the fifth reason is to permit me an
easy way  to experiment with multitrack recording.

And the last reason is to make it sound like a guitar or piano.....
Just kidding!!!! that is too easy. How about complete symphony orchestra.

r.t.

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Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 21:59:42 -0500
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] MIDI,


  It is so difficult to be a prophet these days , even a prophet of doom.
Whatever I want to warn people about , it seems that it already happened
somewhere .<g>

 I will try a last one :  Even if you can still hear " le Bransle des
Chevaux" without adverse reaction , I predict that you will suffer when
you will hear " Lady of Spain " and the " Lambada" on the hurdy- gurdy .

Now if somebody already did , I think I would rather not hear about it .

From now on I will concentrate on the historical side .<g>

= = = = = = = = = = = = =


Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 20:01:19 -0700
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] love hate relationship with the hurdy gurdy.

Here's another vote for the krumhorn. I played a bass krumhorn for a 
while in an ensemble, but, alas, cannot possible afford one. So I 
took an opportunity and made myself a tenor cornamuse (same thing but 
straight). It was a lot of fun and I got a servicable, if quiet, 
instrument out of it.

But if you want strange and odd reactions, you should see people when 
I play some of my Chinese instruments, especially the sheng (mouth 
organ). I often play my instruments in public settings where people 
happen by. I must admit that I love watching the reactions I get, 
especially from the the people who are obviously just dying to know 
what the heck you're playing, but keep on walking and glancing 
sideways at you. As if anyone playing something so unusual would be 
offended by the asking! (I did once get some proselyting missionaries 
from a church who stopped and asked what the HG was and then used 
that as an excuse to discuss other things... I wasn't offended at 
all, but thought it was kind of interesting.)

However, I play the instruments because I like them and the 
entertainment value of watching people is secondary. I suspect that 
no one would play HG just to get a reaction since it would get old in 
a hurry if that were the only reason.

-Arle

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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 08:33:39 +0100 (CET)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: [HG] Lambada?

Is  "lady of Spain" the same "Spanish Lady" I know?
I never play Lambada on the HG but I don't think it
could be worse than the usual version :o). 
I played "Tequila", and it was fun, I played  " le
Bransle des Chevaux" in a band called "acustica
medievale" (sometimes Italian is an easy language to
understand, isn't it?)  that, in spite of its name,
was a Drumulator, Vocoder, Oberhaim, electric bass,
synt guitar combo, and it was fun.
I did some solo performances using C-ducer strips on
my gurdy and phasing, flanger, chorus and delay pedals
and it was fun.
I usually play baroque music but my grandpa' used to
say " a really serious person is never a really
serious person" :o) 

ciao 
 
=====
Marcello Bono

my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045

= = = = = = = = = = = = =


Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:31:36 -0800
From: Anna Peekstok <apeekstok _at_ home.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] love hate relationship with the hurdy gurdy.

arle lommel wrote:

> As if anyone playing something so unusual would be
> offended by the asking!

Depends when and how they ask. I've pretty much given up on busking with the
HG, because I can't talk and play at the same time and people constantly
walk up and get right in my face demanding information, even though I'm in
the middle of singing something. Even if I explain the instrument after
every piece, there are some people who just have to interrupt. It became
evident to me that many (most?) people weren't listening to the music, but
were treating me as a kind of freak show.

> I suspect that 
> no one would play HG just to get a reaction since it would get old in
> a hurry if that were the only reason.

Oh, yes. I live for the day when people will get beyond "what the h--- is
that thing?!?" and move on to enjoying the music.

Anna

=====
Anna Peekstok
Seattle, WA

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Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:34:51 -0700
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] love hate relationship with the hurdy gurdy.

I have never had anyone be so rude as to get in my face. The worst I 
have had was a girl who didn't seem to be all there who wanted to see 
how it all worked. The best I had was when I was playing and a 
Hungarian fellow came up because he recognized the instrument and was 
wondering what an American was doing playing it. We got into a nice 
conversation and it turned out that he was from a town in Hungary I 
had lived in for a while and that we had some mutual acquaintances.

-Arle

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:35:01 +0100 (MET)
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ gmx.at>
Subject: Re: [HG]Liquid Rosin Was: Hiroshi, moodern Strings, nwe HG

Hello, 

Sorry, in the moment I can not read my mail more often, so it always takes
some time for a reply.

> the HG is a musical instrument.  That's it.  It's our instrument of choice
> for various reasons, but it should ideally have no more stigma or 
> associations than, say, piano, guitar,

I want to add the importance of a certain musical style: for example I love
the music for the vielle en re from the berry area. If I join in such a
session or play such music I respect the limits of this instrument and the
special sound quality it gives. I do have a wider range of lower notes on
my instrument which do not exist on a vielle en re  for example, so playing
this music I usually do not use these lower notes.

> OK, now that's out of the way, please tell us about liquid rosin.

so, before I could answer some one else did the work, so I will just ad some
personal thougths.

S. Neumeier wrote:
it is easy to produce liquid rosin yourself. You just have to put small
pieces of rosin into pure high concentrated alcohol and liquidate the rosin
in it (be sure to get pure alcohol. You should get it in the drugstore. It
has not to be the expensive medical stuff). The liquid rosin is a very sticky
solution 

Simon:
Use a very small bottle with a dropper (Ihope this is the right word: a
device that is put into the bottleneck and let the liquid only drop outside) not
a pipette (this all is to minimize possible dammage done by spilled alcohol
and rosin mixture).
 the solution should not be too sticky: if you put it on your fingers and
rub them it should add some friction but not give a "glueing" touch. One can
adjust the solution by adding alcohol or a thick rosin solution to a point
where it does give the right wheel surface without much further manipulation
after adding it on the wheel surface.

S. Neumeier wrote:
and you can use it to "glue" the cotton to the strings. You even need to do
that if you want to play in a manner where you have to turn the wheel
forward and backward so that the cotton will stay where it is. 
(you will probably have fun changing the cotton :-)).

Simon:
If you ever have troubles removing cotton fixed with rosin, use the alcohol
solution as an disolver

S. Neumeier wrote:
You also can use the solution on the wheel.  

Simon:
this is the main purpose of the stuff. The idea was taken probably from
polishing wood surfaces on furniture. As mentioned the solution can be adjusted
not to be too sticky so it is possible to get a standardised quantum of rosin
to the surface. A major advantage is the possibility of cleaning the wheel
surface from dust and fat every time one aplies rosin.  

S. Neumeier wrote:
Take a brush that has the same wide than your wheel. While turning the wheel
you apply a thin layer of the solution.

Simon:
I personaly use a small (about pea size) piece of cotton, put about two or
three drops of the solution on it and aply this to the turning wheel in a way
that the whole surface is coverd neatly (important: all strings off!). 

S. Neumeier wrote:
Now you let it take time to dry (the longer the better, maybe an hour). not
the best solution but a hairdryer can help to spee up the process but you
have to be extremely careful that the heat will not harm your hurdygurdy.

Simon:
I never found any reason to use a hairdryer. Let dry the alcohol away some
seconds (1 - 20) and use a ball of cotton for drying up finaly and optimize
the surface and sound.(By pressing the cotton ball against the wheel surface
causes friction and therefore heat is produced. This helps drying up and
melting the rosin surface to perfect). Finaly press the cotton ball hard against
the edges of the wheel surface and remove rosin from there for improofing the
sound.
 There is a good criterion for the right amount of rosin on the surface:
presumed that the presure of the strings upon the wheel is correct there should
be a clear sound (not noise) from the very moment the wheel is turned slowly.
If there is a starting noise either the rosin or the pressure is to much, if
there is a tempo where the wheel slips trough under the string without
creating sound either the rosin or the pressure is to less.

So, thats it. Sandpaper (600 to 800), as mentioned by S. Neumeier is really
a help for removing to much rosin applied but not a necessity if the rosin
solution is al right.

The applied rosin should keep the instrument going the next two to twenty
playing hours, depending on string pressure and local conditions.
I personaly own also a block of rosin for giving me a secure feeling under
stress on the stage because the block can be used faster, but in fact rosin
applied from the block does not last that long.

so, thats it for the moment,

-- 
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria 

http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:13:22 +0100 (MET)
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ gmx.at>
Subject: [HG] Re: Lambada?, tradition, state of the art on keyboxes

Hello,

My personal target is that "it is a hurdy gurdy" no longer can be used as
excuse for bad sound and worse playing. The hurdy gurdy should be seen as an
music instrument like a clarinet or trombone or piano but choosen for its
wonderfull sounds, unique possibilities and music.

Without narrowing the pride of french vielle a roue players and the unique
quality of their music I frankly want to say that treating french luthback
instruments as synonym for hurdy gurdy at all created some aufwully bad
examples of music (medieval, renaissance, traditional music from other
parts of europe). For many kinds of music that are really perfectly
fitting to the hurdy gurdy the knowledge about a good instrument for this
very kind of music is not entirely found yet, and in the same time we all
move on irresistible into the 21st century which will create its own
tradition, as the Pignols once put it: "musique traditionelle de demain" -
the traditional music of tomorow.


> re-    state of the art on keyboxes  
> Simon 
> I am interested in any info relating to making and construction of HGs. 
> Arthur 

I fear "any info ..." is a bit more than what can be answered within one
e-mail and I am not a good overall HG adviser too ;-) , but yess I love
experimenting and discussing.

-- 
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria 

http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:28:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Was: Lambada?, tradition, etc, Now: faux trompette


Hi Simon, last year you mentioned experimenting w/ tennis racquet string
for a trompette. If memory serves the idea was to eliminate the specific
note in favor of the percussive sound of the chien. Can you give us an
update on that project?

Thanks, Roy T.
= = = = = = = = = = = = =


Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:04:57 -0000
From: Neil Brook <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] love hate relationship with the hurdy gurdy.

I think it all depends on the listeners' pre-conditioning as to what is
"Right" in music, Children seem entranced by the instrument and its sound.
I was particularly moved by a deaf&dumb 8 year old girl who broke away from
her mother to get closer, she seemed entranced by the experience and
protested when Mum presumably could stand it no more and dragged her away!

Years ago, Angela Beaumont had some T shirts printed with the logo " It's a
Hurdy-Gurdy" which does away with the need to answer the commonest question.
Queries like "How many tunes does it play?" and "Where does the wind go in?"
are harder to elude.
Neil
www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk


= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 21:43:55 +0100
From: Marc Reymen <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: [HG] (geen onderwerp)

Hello everybody
I'd like to get some info about the soundpost in a HG and the bridge.
I'm making a text about the bridge an dthe soundpost adjustment in
violines and because I'm a HG maker to i'd like to now what you think
that is important about these parts in the HG.
Why putting more than one soundpost? 3 for example ,even under the
tangent box ?
What should the dimensions be (diameter)?
is there anybody who has done some investigations about these parts?
Marc

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 21:01:15 -0700
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: [HG] Some MP3 files, pictures, and a name for the HG

Hello,

I am just writing to recommend a site to everyone. Balázs Nagy, the 
Hungarian HG maker, has just put up a home site for his group, the 
Bourdon Trio. While there is not yet an English version of the site, 
there are some nice pictures of people playing HGs (French style, not 
Hungarian), lutes, and other traditional instruments. In addition 
there are links to MP3 files for three of the group's songs and 
pictures of the instruments they use, including a gemshorn (which 
came up recently on the list), called a zergekürt in Hungarian.

All in all, a site worth taking at least a glance at.

On another topic Laszlo Szabo, a list member in Austria just informed 
me a of another name for the HG in Hungarian that I was not familiar 
with: nyenere (the "ny"s are pronounced as in the word canyon). The 
term is a folk term that is not in common use. When I asked Laszlo 
about the origins of the term he said it is after the sound of the 
chien, but then had a wonderful folk tale I want to post on the list, 
especially in light of the recent discussions about whether the HG is 
a good-sounding instrument. The story is wonderfully Hungarian in its 
tone and I hope I do it some justice.This is my quick and dirty 
translation of it. My apologies if I miss anything:

********

After God expelled Adan and Eve from Paradise he created the Garden 
of Music so that people could rest from their labors and remember the 
beautiful times of yore in Eden. In this garden grew the "flowers of 
music"

But people were as they always were, and they gave names to the 
sounds, melodies, instruments, and everything else in the Garden. 
From the old flowering garden people made a French park -- 
symmetrically cut and divided into sections. Then they began to 
debate with others about which which songs, which instruments, which 
harmonies, and which chords could go into the classical sections, 
into the folk section and into the rock section; which could go into 
the beautiful music section, which could go into the commercial 
jingles section, which could go into the ugly music section; which 
were consonant and which were dissonant &c.

God already knew from his experience with Eden and the Tower of Babel 
that people are always fickle and so said to the people:

"Let there be a small wild place in my garden where there is no 
category of man, where music can grow as it will by itself, and where 
man cannot create categories or make up names. All man's giving of 
names only leads to partial understanding."

Resting on the grass in this divine wild garden was an unusual 
multi-stringed instrument which was made such that it found voice 
through a wheel, the symbol of the eternity of God.

Those instruments which already had found a category and were 
classified, and, especially, those people who think in little boxes 
heaped condemnation upon this instrument since it was the only 
instrument without a name, a category, a standard form, or even a 
definite origin, and which could sound with almost any voice 
imaginaable.

Of course the instrument felt very inferior as a result and began to 
weep in the grass.

God saw this and took pity upon it. He did not wish that this small 
instrument remain outcast, but neither did he wish that the 
instrument that sounded through the symbol of his eternity receive a 
name from people of limited wisdom as had the other instruments.

Therefor God said to the instrument, "Say of yourself what you want 
your name to be" and he reached out and turned the crank three times.

The instrument replied "nye-nye-re"


*****

Arle

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:26:45 -0000
From: Nick Nourse <nick _at_ themapworks.co.uk>
Subject: [HG] Cheap + nasty HG

This is directed at the UK-only members I think; I have just come across a
copy (March issue) of Practical Woodworking, where there is a response to
an article in Decembers issue, relating to the above mentioned cheap and
nasty HG - sorry, I can't remember who the response was by, but it is one
of our regular contributors here (East Anglia??)
Purely out of academic interest, could someone lend me/photocopy the
article? Many thanks.
Nick Nourse

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:26:49 -0700
From: Barry Black <bbc0 _at_ home.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Some MP3 files, pictures, and a name for the HG

Hi,
What is the URL for the site?
BB

00

Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 12:43:01 -0800
From: Anna Peekstok <apeekstok _at_ home.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] love hate relationship with the hurdy gurdy.

Neil Brook wrote:

> Years ago, Angela Beaumont had some T shirts printed with the logo " It's a
> Hurdy-Gurdy" which does away with the need to answer the commonest question.

Alden and Cali Hackmann did this a few years ago too. I think it's a logical
step for the HG player who has passed the 1,000 mark for answering that
question.

I've always maintained that the complete T-shirt needs to also say "* see
back for details" on the front. The back could have more info. It's less
distracting, especially in a crowd-surround situation such as busking, to
have people staring closely at one's back than to have them shouting in
one's face.

Anna

=====
Anna Peekstok
Seattle, WA
www.telynor.com

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:22:05 -0700
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] Some MP3 files, pictures, and a name for the HG

Sorry I left out the URL. Perhaps I am getting old.

-Arle

http://www.folkinfo.net/bourdon


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Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:40:42 -0500
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: [HG] HURDY GURDY PLAYERS PERSONALITY??

Thankyou
     For all your letters about the reason why people choose the Hurdy Gurdy
as an instrument.

                                          O.K. Now on to my next question.
How would you describe the personality of the Gurdy player??  Are they shy
people hiding behind a really different instrument?  Or are they outgoing
people loving all the attentiion that they get when people walk up and and
want  to ask many many question??
I think that all musicians have personality that go along with their
instrument.  I think that a trumpet player is  loud out going, sometimes
obnoxious person. I mean this in fun I would not want to offend anyone. ;)
Laura
Wife to a wanna be Hurdy Gurdy player      in a midlife crisis,

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 18:28:04 -0500
From: Allan Janus <ajanus _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Cheap + nasty HG

I don't have the article, Nick, but your subject reminded me
of something I've been meaning to ask the list - has anyone
built Dennis Havlena's $20 hurdy-gurdy:

	http://www.edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu/~dhavlena/hurdy.htm

Allan Janus

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:21:29 -0500
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] HURDY GURDY PLAYERS PERSONALITY??

Zhenya:

You might say that!

Check out the Over the Water Calendar, Men of the Hurdy Gurdy Festival.
It gives one a good idea of the personalities involved, and the 
men "hiding behind a really different instrument"

You can order one at http://www.overthewater.org/merch.html (Might
even help with the midlife crisis....)

judith

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Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:53:37 -0800
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] Cheap + nasty HG

Nick nourse

Let me know your address if you don't get a deluge of offers and I will send
copies of the articles.

I have been following the series you mention and the instrument is very
basic with a pentatonic scale arrangement. I wouldn't call it cheap and
nasty but it is not the last word in modernity. I would not think it worth
making except as a novelty.

But anything that widens the awareness of the hg can't be all that bad, can
it?.

george swallow

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Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 03:23:05 -0500
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] HURDY GURDY PLAYERS PERSONALITY??

O.K. O.K. Just my point,  what other kind of insterment would you see with
men posing nude with their instrument??
 subconsciously Does the hurdy Gurdy player take himself seriouly??
Laura

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Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:48:58 +0100
From: s.r.neumeier _at_ gmx.de
Subject: Re: [HG] HURDY GURDY PLAYERS PERSONALITY??

> I mean this in fun I would not want to offend anyone. ;)

But you did.

I also red your other messages and decided not to answer or react (as I
hoped this discusion would quit soon). I can understand that you do not
like the HG at all and that is ok. But if you do not like it why do you
always want to see people playing or loving the HG as someting strange,
extraordinary or what else? We are just normal people who play a normal
and ordinary (!!!) instrument that has only become a little bis seldom in
our days !!!!

S.N.

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Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:39:50 -0000
From: Neil Brook <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] HURDY GURDY PLAYERS PERSONALITY??

I think Gurdy players along with the rest of humanity tend to fall into
two broad categories, there are those who take themselves seriously and
those who are out to enjoy life at all times.

Either of the extremes can be irritating to a follower of the opposite
philosophy , with the over serious spending an inordinate length of time
with rosin,cotton and tangents before a note is played.

The player who can enjoy playing a badly regulated gurdy is to be envied in
some ways but the reputation of the instrument is damaged by such an
attitude.

As in all things, the middle course would seem to be the best.
There doesn't seem to be a particular personality suited to the gurdy
player, just different approaches to it.

Your alternative personality suppositions assume there has to be an ulterior
motive for playing the instrument. I think you'll find that players go
through all the grief of learning purely for the satisfaction of doing
exactly that .The reaction induced in spectators is of little interest .

I was surprised that S.N. was so easily hurt by your comments, one definite
requirement  of a gurdy player is a thicker than normal epidermis!

Neil
www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk

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Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:37:52 +0100
From: Cor Westbroek <bourree _at_ hetnet.nl>
Subject: Re: [HG] HURDY GURDY PLAYERS PERSONALITY??

Is this a mail list about hurdy gurdy's or about personality's.
Cor Westbroek

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Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:28:02 -0800
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] Cheap + nasty HG

For the benefit of the non-UK fraternity, the instrument mentioned can be
viewed on www.users.waitrose.com/~ratter

There is one more instalment to go, so some of the points subject to
criticism might be dealt with then.  As the author says he used recycled
wood for most of it, the cheap part of Nick Nourse's description might be
correct.

Anyone contemplating suicide wishing to avoid violating their insurance
cover should leave sharp edges on the 12mm or so of the shaft projecting
into the path of the rotating wrist.

I think anyone making one from these articles, with all the attractive
photgraphs, would want to make a real one afterwards, as this one, with
hardwood bearings and a shaft that looks like studding, would not last long.

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Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:08:27 -1000
From: Don V. Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] HURDY GURDY PLAYERS PERSONALITY??

I play HG because I heard it played in Central France in 1968 when I was 13.
The sound immediately transports me back to past lives as a troubador and song
after song that I've never heard in this life come pouring through me and out
of this instrument. I'm filled with happiness when I'm playing and nothing else
matters.

There is really no reason to be obssessed with personality. People love hurdy
gurdy because they love it, and they play it because it makes them happy.

Don

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Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 00:06:36 -0500
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Personnality :

Hi,

    Once upon a time , before the age of internet , there were two big
problems faced by somebody ( me for exemple ) who wanted to play the
hurdy-gurdy .

  One was the difficulty of finding an instrument , the other was to
accept the almost inevitable red nose and liver desease that seemed ( in
thise days ) to be associated with the HG playing lifestyle <g>.

  A am very happy to see that those times are over and that today most
players seem to live a healthy life <g>. ( But the truth is that I did
gain some volume at equator level)

  The most recent problem was that this instrument seems to attract mostly
beautyfull women , players and listeners, and thus bring suspicion in
one's ( mine for exemple ) couple .

  This problem was solved when my wife started to play the hurdy-gurdy .

Henry

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Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 11:20:17 -0000
From: Neil Brook <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] HURDY GURDY PLAYERS PERSONALITY??

Do we prefer hurdy-gurdies , hurdy gurdy's, hurdy-gurdys or what? I'm fairly
sure personalities come in to that somewhere as well.

www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk

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Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 12:32:01 +0100
From: www.altemusik.net <thomas _at_ altemusik.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] HURDY GURDY PLAYERS PERSONALITY??

I prefer "Drehleiern" and "Radleiern".

Thomas
http://www.altemusik.net

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Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:30:28 -0300 (ART)
From: marcos kaiser mori <kaisermori _at_ yahoo.com.br>
Subject: [HG] a name for the HG


> 
>   The instrument replied "nye-nye-re"
> 
> 
>   *****
> 
>   Arle
> 
>  
  I heard an hungarian song two days ago, to be sung
with the nyenyere, and found it strange.
  It describes the instrument, a tekero, but tell
about an Asian route. 
   Do anyone know something of the history of the
instrument before 1000dc? 
  Maybe the nyenyere is the gypsy version of the
hurdy-gurdy, and came with the gypsy people from
asia...
                     Marcos
  

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Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:14:51 -0500
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] a name for the HG

I have a  Slovak hurdy gurdy, very large and loud, which is
called a 'ninera' is Slovak.  You can find a story about my
finding it at http://www.judithlindenau.com/judithandtibor.html


judith

Judith Lindenau, CAE, RCE
MAILTO:judith _at_ taar.com

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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 02:58:15 -0000
From: Dave Praties <dave _at_ dpraties.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: [HG] HG in Slovenia

Hello,
Can anyone tell me if there is a known tradition of hurdy-gurdy 
playing or making in Slovenia? I worked there recently and came 
across many musicians including bagpipers, but none of them 
knew of any HG players, and most of them didn't know what a HG 
was.
Cheers,
Dave.

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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:30:02 +0100
From: RA-Szabo-Laszlo _at_ i-one.at
Subject: Re: [HG] a name for the HG

Dear Marcos!

I read your message to Arle.

May be you are right with your gipsy theory.
I don´t know enough about the history of gipsy music.

But I think, it is that if you heard a hungarian song telling about the
route from asia, it tells about the route that the hungarian people took to
hungaria before 1000 a.d. Many hungarian songs tell about the times, when
the hungarian (magyar) people was not yet in the territory of the later
Hungarian crown.
But this songs were all written much later, in times, when the authors
wanted to underline the hungarian national identity and asian origins of the
language in times of occupation  (Turkish era, Habsburg era etc.) as an
expression of resistance.

My personal opinion to the origins of the hungarian nyenyere is, that in the
late middle ages the hurdy gurdy was a part of the common european
instrumental tradition. Most of the instruments (guitar, etc.) have their
origins in the orient, and came to Europe (and also to Hungary) in the time
of the cruciador wars.

The reason, why the hurdy gurdy has a continuing  tradition in Hungaria is,
that in the times, when the tekerölant (this word is the direct translation
of the the german "Drehleier") died out almost in whole Europe (16-18 th
century)  the hungarian and the transsylvanian music, also influenced by the
music of the turkish occupation, went different ways and left a place for
instruments like nyenyere.

I don´t think that is possible to tell scientifically seriously anything
about origins of hungarian instruments in the time before 1000 a.d.  there
are almost no written documents from this time.

Could you tell me which songs you heart?

László

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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:09:56 -0700
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: RE: [HG] a name for the HG

I looked at the page and I would strongly suspect that the name is 
from the same source for two reasons:

1. Slovak doesn't have the "ny" sound so in Slovak "nyenyera" would 
be "nenera" at the least, but in the Hungarian of northern villages 
there is a strong tendency for e to become i, so if the term came 
from nyenyere, it likely came via nyinyera. (Of course it could have 
come the other way as well, i.e., Slovak -> Hungarian, but the n->ny 
sound change is less likely, although certainly not impossible, from 
a linguistic standpoint that the reverse.) In short the variation in 
names can be fully accounted for by linguistic traits in the area.

2. Tibor has a characteristically Hungarian given name. Slovakia, 
until after WWI, was considered part of Hungary and Hungarian 
influence in the region was considerable. Even many Slovak 
monolinguals in the area are of Hungarian origin, and have Hungarian 
names. This influence can also be seen in the instruments of 
Slovakia, which often are more similar to their Hungarian 
counterparts than to anything in the Czech Republic or any other 
Slavic countries.

As an example, quite a bit of what is known historically about the 
duda, or Hungarian bagpipe, comes from examples preserved in 
present-day Slovakia. I would like to know more about Tibor's 
bagpipes. I suspect that they have a double chanter and other 
Hungarian features.

The area Tibor is from was traditionally called the Felvidék (Upper 
Country) by Hungarians and is still the home of substantial Hungarian 
minorities (actually majorities in some areas) although they tend to 
keep a low profile since, until the fall of Communism ethnic 
Hungarians tended to be treated as second-class citizens outside of 
Hungary except in Poland. (Poles and Hungarians seem to love each 
other.) There are now about 5 million ethnic Hungarians now living 
outside Hungary in areas that were part of Hungary until the treaty 
of Versailles, mostly in Transylvania and northern Serbia (Voivodinie 
is predominantly Hungarian).

Do you have any pictures of your instrument? It would be very 
interesting to compare it to a the tekerő/nyinyera. I would imagine 
that we would find that they are of the same type.

-Arle

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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:48:07 -0700
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] a name for the HG

The idea of it (the song Marcos mentioned in a previous message) 
being about the Hungarian's Asian origins is more likely than it 
being a Gypsy song.

I am going to launch into an aside now that has little to do with the 
topic, but you might find interesting.It explains why I call the 
Gypsies Rom. I have marked the start and finish so you can skip over 
it if you want!

**START of digression**

Gypsies are more properly called Rom, as many Rom object to the 
negative connotations associated with the term Gypsy and its 
counterparts in other languages. Rom is the term in Romany (their 
language) for "human being." Others have embraced the term Gypsy and 
wear it with pride, but in general Rom is the least objectionable 
term.

I am not engaged in some sort of meaningless political correctness 
here. The strong bias against "Gypsies" is seen in terms such as 
English "gipped" (cheated/swindled), which is, apparently, from a 
previous "Gypsied" or in Hungarian, where, based on "cigany", the 
Hungarian word equivalent to Gypsy, you have terms for cheating, 
deceit, choking, etc. If my name told everyone I was a cheater and 
thief in advance of them knowing me I would want to change it to!

(Please note that I am not accusing anyone of trying to belittle the 
Rom. Very few people know anything about them, so I just though this 
was a good opportunity to let people know a little more about the 
Rom.)

Anyway, that is off the subject. To return to Marcos' song:

**END of digression**

Asian origins play almost no part in Rom native folklore and have 
only become well-known and popular based on the work of ethnographers 
in the 19th and 20th centuries who deduced the Asian origins based on 
linguistic data. Many of those who studied the Rom were astonished 
that the Rom seemed rather uninterested in their origins, at least in 
ways that matched Victorian notions of race and identity. (Remember 
this is the time when Wagnerian "blood myths" were all the rage and a 
lot of effort was spent throughout Europe on questions of "blood" and 
"race". Whatever value these studies may have had, any such idea is 
now forever tainted by association with Nazism.) The Rom's own 
stories of origin seem to focus primarily on their relationship the 
gazhos (non-Rom) around them and to explaining the Rom itinerant 
lifestyle. Almost nothing shows up in their legends about where they 
came from prior to Europe.

The Rom acquired the name Gypsy from "Egypsian" or "Egyptian" because 
when the first entered into Western Europe during Renaissance times 
many of the bands came in the guise of pilgrims who were forced to 
rove because their ancestors were Egyptians who had failed to shelter 
the Holy Family during the flight to Egypt. The bands had acquired 
writs of passage from ecclesiastical leaders for safe passage. (At 
that time in Europe about the only way to be intinerant was to travel 
as a pilgrim or a merchant. Pilgrims had the advantage of being 
treated very well.) In particular the bands claimed to be from the 
country of "Little Egypt" and some of the Rom made a living off of 
public perceptions of Egypt as a mysterious country full of lost 
knowledge. This is at least part of where the stereotype of the 
"Gypsie fortune-teller came from.

Based on this it would seem highly unlikely (but not impossible, 
since modern Rom have created "legends" based on what the 
ethnographers have told them about their origins) that the song is 
Rom in origin.

Hungarians, on the other hand, have maintained very strong traditions 
about their Asian origins and are very proud that they are not 
European in origin.

On additional aspect to consider in this is that Rom musicians in 
Hungary have traditionally been known for their proficiency on 
violin, viola, bass, gardon (a cello-like percussion instrument) and 
cembalom (a hammered dulcimer), but have traditionally shied away 
from bagpipes and the tekerő, which were seen as peasant instruments. 
Both the bagpipe (duda) and tekerő began to die out in Hungary 
(although never completely) as the importance of the pastoral economy 
declined. Both of the instruments were associated with the pastoral 
lifestyle and as a more urban outlook developed and economic 
prosperity increased, even in the villages people started hiring more 
expensive Rom musicians who didn't play in the "old-fashioned" 
drone-heavy mode. (This bias among the Rom against drone instruments 
was still evident early in this century when the traditions for both 
of these instruments were still viable in Hungary outside of a folk 
revival setting and ethnomusicologists were still able to examine 
Hungarian folk music in its original setting. Hungarians played duda 
and tekerő, while Rom did not.)

I guess this is my long way of answering the question and saying why 
it is much more likely that the song is Hungarian than Rom.

If anyone is interested in any of the topics I discussed I could find 
some references so you can read more.

Regards,

Arle

Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:27:28 -0500
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] a name for the HG

You can find some excellent photos of my ninera (taken by list member David
Smith)
on this site: http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1214689&a=10172189


judith


:
:Do you have any pictures of your instrument? It would be very
:interesting to compare it to a the tekerő/nyinyera. I would imagine
:that we would find that they are of the same type.
:
:-Arle

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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:51:02 -0700
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: [HG] ninera

Judith,

OK, boy was I wrong in assuming that you had basically the same thing 
as a tekerő!

While your instrument has some similarities to the tekerő (general 
form and layout), some of the design work is most definitely Slavic 
and there are a lot of details that are either the product of Tibor's 
mind or represent a very different building tradition.

Aside from the fact that Tibor is clearly an innovator (the fine 
tuners and bridge mounts are definitely not traditional for the 
region, but that's certainly OK) I would note that the instrument you 
have is quite a bit smaller than the tekerő I have (or you are 
considerably taller than I suppose!) and the crank-end arrangement is 
very different, although more similar to the Hungarian instruments 
than to the French ones. It almost looks as if an engineer got hold 
of the Hungarian instrument and decided how to make things easier to 
control. I do not mean any disrespect to the instrument, but it also 
looks as if this part of the instrument was designed by an engineer. 
There is a lot more hardware visible than what one would see on the 
Hungarian instrument (the tail end of which looks much more like a 
"conventional" string instrument).

One other thing I find surprising is that it looks as if your 
instrument is arch-topped. If this is traditional in Slovakia then 
these instruments are very unique. Hungarian instruments have a flat 
cut top that is bent over ribs and is usually made of fir. I also 
note that your instrument has no sound holes near the tail. The 
Hungarian instruments generally do.

I must say that the adjuster for the buzzing bridge is ingenious. It 
is more elegant and probably easier to use than what one sees on the 
tekerő.

One other question. What is the tuning on the instrument. It looks as 
if your lowest note on the canter is your tonic whereas on the tekerő 
the lowest note is the dominant (i.e., the instrument is in A but the 
lowest note on the canter is E). I could be wrong about your tuning, 
as the tekerő actually doesn't look like it is tuned the way it is.

I am now very curious.

-Arle

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Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:35:52 -0500
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] ninera

With the instrument came a little scrap of paper in Slovakian.
I will retrieve it when I go home tonight and send you the tuning
he recommends...I want to be accurate about that. I've tuned it
a little differently, so I'll make sure I get it right for you.

You are right about a rounded top...much more gently curved, like
a fiddle, which Tibor also builds. (Actually, his son is apprenticing
in the shop and HE is the fiddle maker.)

I do have a video of Tibor which I could share with you if you like...
I would loan it to you if you would send your mailing address. I don't
know about the engineering part: I understand that Tibor did work
in manufacturing before he 'retired' to become an instrument maker
and folk musician. He has been to St. Chartier, I know, but usually
stays pretty close to home. He has built 26 nineras, but only one
other is located in North America, in Canada, I belive. I also have
an audiotape of his singing and playing and again, I would be happy
to share it or obtain you a copy from my friends in Slovakia.

I will send you the tuning scheme this evening.

judith

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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:54:20 -0800
From: SW/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [HG] ninera

Just as a point of interest, in Spanish, a nanny, that is to say  a woman
who looks after children, is called a ninera  pronouced ninyera ( there
should be a  wormlike squiggle over the second N ).
I am starting to imagine a Spanish nanny putting Slovenian children to
sleep with the droning of her zanfonia and having an instrument named after
her..... a nice image if nothing else.
Juan

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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 13:03:51 +0100
From: RA-Szabo-Laszlo _at_ i-one.at
Subject: Re: [HG] ninera

Would be also nice to imagine (without any ethymological speculation) the
sound of a tekerö in southern Italy, were the nannys and mothers are singing
in the evening: (c/.2) "nina nanna, nina o - questa bimba a chi la do!"
I am just expecting labour conflicts between unemployed Spanish - Italian
zanfonia and ghironda players at one side and Hungarian - Slovakian
nyenyere - ninera musicians on the other side searching for work as nurses
in southern-west Europe.
hurdy gurdy - a new term in - sleeping - migration - policy in the EC? :-)
Laszlo

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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:43:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] New book: Building documentation of a HG.


Back in January Stefan wrote: 

> Just a short information for those who are interested in the topic and
> who are able to read German.
> H. Gotschy wrote a building documentation ("Bau einer Drehleier") for a
> HG which is now available at "Verlag der Spielleute"

We just got our shipment of these books, so they are now available. They
are beautifully illustrated with b/w photos and line drawings.  The text
is fairly short, so I'm looking forward to an English translation.

Alden 

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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:45:01 -0700
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] New book: Building documentation of a HG.

What is the price on these and how does one go about ordering them?

-Arle

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Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 21:00:11 +0100
From: René Meeuws <meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl>
Subject: Re: [HG] mics, amps + other e-devices

Hello Juulia,
 
I can try to give a discription of my electro-acoustic instrument. It's
similar to that of Valentin Clastrier: an alto model, made by Denis
Siorat. I just have less strings (happy me!) and an easier capo system.
 
Principally the Siorat instruments have a four way miking system:
 *  the two groups of resonance strings (12 or more, chromatically tuned)
    each have an electric guitar pickup; together they build up one
    channel
 *  the drones are all placed at one side of the keybox; under the drone
    bridge one K&K piezo is placed
 *  on the melody string bridge (four melodic strings) there are two
    piezo's pasted; again: together they build up one channel
 *  each trumpet (I have two, Clastrier three I thought) has a piezo
    build in the foot plate; once again: together they build up one
    channel
If two or more mikes come together in one channel, you can regulate the
balance between the different sources on the build in pre-amp. You can
reach this piece of hardware by opening a little hatch at the backside of
the instrument. The pre-amps are connected with four volume buttons on
the topside. So you can make a first balance between the four sources.
 
You can plug the four channels in a mixing table, where you can adjust
equalizing and effects. Sometimes the first is necessary, the second is
funny, especially at the beginning. My own experience is that too much
effects are boring! After you have discovered the possibilities of your
FX-unit, you have to decide how your HG has to sound and which effects
you will need for the music you play.
 
BTW: on Hérésie you can hear just some reverb (perhaps) on Clastrier's
HG, all other sounds belong to the instrument! What make sound the Siorat
instruments so warm and pronounced are i.o. the possibilities of (the
combinations of) the different registers and the use of the resonance
strings. That's what you hear on Clastrier's recordings. Once after a
concert I was asked by the violin player of another group how I made the
special reverb in one piece; I could answer him that it wasn't my Alesis
Quadraverb, but only the resonance strings!
 
Where other makers just pasted guitar or violin piezo's on their
instruments, in the eighties Denis Siorat was a pioneer by developping a
really electro acoustic instrument. In 1986 he made a prototype for
Jean-Luc Gueneau (Fubu, now Le Gop), who needed a HG which was easy to
amplifie. That year in St. Chartier I was looking for a modern HG and I
was impressed by the natural, acoustic sound of this prototype; so I
commanded one and later I discovered the electro acoustic possibilities.
In the nineties Helmut Gotschy (Germany) did a lot of research after the
possibilities of midi on a HG; he reached a high grade of separation
between the different sound sources (www.gotschy.com). Recently the
Austrian HG maker Wolfgang Weichselbaumer makes very advanced electro
acoustic HG's (www.weichselbaumer.cc) (listen to Matthias Loibner with
Deishovida!).
 
I hope this makes sense to you. Many greetings from Holland,
 
René Meeuws
 
 
000 

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:03:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] mics, amps + other e-devices


Esa suggested this topic, and I'd meant to post on it earlier.  

We've used several systems for amplification, both outboard and onboard.  

Our favorite to date is 3 K+K transducers (2 Big Dots, 1 Hot Shot) on the
bridges and right under where the dog taps.  We mix the two drone
transducers together and then mix the two signals with an onboard combined
pre-amp and mixer. There are volume and EQ controls for each channel, high
cut and low cut on the bourdons, phase switch for each transducer, and a
mute.  There are separate effects loops for the chanters and the drones.
It has both unbalanced and balanced (XLR) outputs.

I'm very pleased with the sound we get from this mixer, but I recently
worked with (ie played with) a different mixer, and I'm thinking of using
this one in the next one we make. It has basically the same input/output
options but has a different EQ.  

We've also just mounted two transducers on the chanter and trompette
positions and run it to an endpin jack, which the player then plugged
into a small outboard preamp/mixer.  I prefer the controls to be at my
fingertips when I'm playing - perhaps it's my electric guitar background
;-) 

We've also used a small microphone mounted on the soundboard with
Velcro(TM), which runs out to its own beltpack preamp.  The sound from
this is pretty good, but once you've chosen your spot, your chanter/dog
balance is set.  I had a tendency to get the cord wrapped around the crank
sometimes too.  

I seem to remember Emma Heape wrote a little column in a HGS newsletter a
few years ago with a description of what Nigel was using at the time -
perhaps I can find it. 


Alden 

= = = = = = = = = = = = =


Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 22:36:35 +0100
From: Marc Reymen <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [HG] plans

Hello,
Is it possible to send me a copy of the file or of the plans
I'm interested in them as a studie object .
I never use a plan as the only form of info for the constructuion of a HG
most of the time i use some elements from the plan but in the construction
of an other hg from an other plan.
Where can i get the originals anyway??
reymen _at_ pandora.be
Marc

marcos kaiser schreef:

> For those who still remember... The Louvet plans are ready now. 

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

From darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu Wed Jul 18 13:04:22 2001
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 13:53:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Reply-To: hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com
To: hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com
Subject: [HG] VIRUS - Read immediately! (From Alden)

Dear List, 

As you probably know from reading the other messages above, a file
named "ALANIS_Screen_Saver.SCR" sent to the list contained a virus.  DO
NOT open this file. Delete it without reading it or opening it.  

As a general rule, there should be no attachments of any kind to postings
on this list, so any and all attachments are immediately suspect.  The
Listmaster strongly recommends deleting all attachments sent to the list
without opening them.

Alden F.M. Hackmann                        darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html    
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 23:26:17 -0600
From: Rob McConnell <robrmcc _at_ mts.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] New book: Building documentation of a HG.

Marc Reyman and I are going to try a translation.  I have still not received
a copy yet so I have not started, but I think he has.  We will keep the list
posted for people that are interested.

Rob McC

Alden Hackmann wrote:

> Back in January Stefan wrote:
>
> > Just a short information for those who are interested in the topic and
> > who are able to read German.
> > H. Gotschy wrote a building documentation ("Bau einer Drehleier") for a
> > HG which is now available at "Verlag der Spielleute"
>
> We just got our shipment of these books, so they are now available. They
> are beautifully illustrated with b/w photos and line drawings.  The text
> is fairly short, so I'm looking forward to an English translation.
>
> Alden


= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:59:21 +0100 (MET)
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ gmx.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] strings, chien Was: Lambada?, tradition, etc,
     Now: faux trompette

Hi Roy,
 
> Hi Simon, last year you mentioned experimenting w/ 
> tennis racquet string for a trompette. If memory
> serves the idea was to eliminate the specific note in
> favor of the percussive sound of the chien. Can you
> give us an update on that project?

In the moment I know a maker of fully electric HG who uses tennis racket
strings for the trompette, the clue is that you can shift the pitch of the
string widely at acceptable chien function. 

My personal choisse in the moment is a 1.35 mm gut for c/d (viola c) a 1.10
gut for f/g, .85 gut for c'/d' (usual trompette pitch) and .65 gut for f'/g',
so in the moment I stay wit the gut because it is available in all
dimensions and does not give a very brilliant sound ;-) . As you can see I use rather
thin gut strings for the trompette in order to keep the specific note of the
strings "thin".  Gut imitating strings I tried which are used on ancient
music insrutruments give a more brilliant sound, wich I do not want in this case.
Plain nylon strings are, as often written on this list, not satisfiing at
all, not from string sound, not from percussive sound and not from pitch
stability.


-- 
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria 

http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:18:14 +0100 (MET)
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ gmx.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] (geen onderwerp)

> Hello everybody
> I'd like to get some info about the soundpost in a HG and the bridge.

> Why putting more than one soundpost? 3 for example ,even under the
> tangent box ?
I think that on traditional HG making the soundposts have a main function on
stability and less on sound creation. 

I know very good instruments where the makers tried to change the soundpost
system of the HG: put it from the middle - right under the bridge and axle -
to the side as on other bowed string instruments, but this maybe does only
make sense on flatback instruments. The side of the slot for the wheel must be
strenghtened to take the pressure from the bridge and some changes have to be
made to stop the soundpost from cracking the back and or the soundboard. the
soundpost under the keybox is still there to fix the keybox since the
"bracing" does not lead to the side any more (more like on guitar - Soundboard and
(changed) bracing are glued together and afterward glued on top of the  back
and sides)

> is there anybody who has done some investigations about these parts?

ask Wolfgang Weichselbaumer, but I am not sure if he will tell you anything
constructive about his research. 

-- 
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria 

http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:01:26 -0700
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: [HG] Translation of German book - some issues and concerns

I have one bit of (unsolicited) advice for those translating the book 
from someone who has worked in the translation industry in one 
capacity or another for several years now. I do not know your 
experience as translators, so please don't feel I am trying to talk 
down to you if you know all of this. If you are professional 
translators then you will likely know all this. (I apologize to you 
in advance if you don't want this kind of advice.)

You need to decide very early on how you are going to deal with the 
terminology in the text so that it is consistent, especially as this 
would be a collaborative effort. You must make sure that you are 
translating the same terms the same ways (see below). If this is not 
done and the usage is inconsistent it is frustrating for the reader 
and can even cause problems and misunderstanding.

The best thing you can do is very early on make a list in Excel (or 
some other format) of everything that you think is a term, whether 
one word, or multiple word, and settle on the translations you will 
use. While one-word terms are obvious (e.g., English "dog", "drone", 
etc.) many times novice translators miss multiple-word terms (e.g., 
"buzzing bridge", "tapered peg tuner"). Even though this step is 
time-consuming initially it will vastly improve the quality of a 
translation in the end, and may actually save time in editing and 
proofing.

Think of it as the equivalent of making sure you have the proper 
tools before making an instrument and that you use them properly. You 
wouldn't want to sit down and make each key slot in the key box with 
a different method -- using a mortising machine for one, a laser 
cutter for the second, a chisel for the third, a router for the 
fourth and so forth -- but those who don't prepare terminology in 
advance often do just that, ending up with four or five translations 
for one thing.

As another terminology issue, you would need to decide amongst 
yourselves whether to use the widely-known French terms or their 
English equivalents in your translation. Whatever you do, don't 
simply mix the two and use the French in one place and the English in 
another. That is a sure-fire way of driving a reader nuts!

My suggestion (but I would invite others to agree or disagree) would 
be that you opt to use English rather than French equivalents, even 
where the French is well established, for most items because there 
are those who would use the book who are coming from non-French 
playing traditions who might not know the French terms, but who would 
know the English terms. As a good alternative you could provide a 
good glossary of terms and still use the French terms. The general 
principle either way is to make sure you use terms such that the 
audience either can be reasonably expected to know them or that they 
are well-defined.

There are a couple of other important items to consider. I don't know 
what level you want to pursue the translation to, but if you intend 
to actually print the translation or sell it the following items are 
very important. Even if you don't print it, please consider point 
number two as a professional courtesy to H. Gotschy:

1. Just because you have prepared a translation may not mean that you 
can publish it or even disseminate it in to anyone unless they 
request it directly from you, due to copyright restrictions that 
apply to translated works.

Aside from the issue that the publisher "owns" the text, there is 
also the issue of drawings and other items that would be reproduced 
directly. Many publishers maintain an active legal team to deal with 
copyright violations. I am not terribly familiar with the law in this 
area, but it would be a very good idea to make sure, before you spend 
time on this project, that the publisher is amenable to the idea of a 
translation, especially if they have a U.S. affiliate.

2. It is generally considered very discourteous not to obtain the 
consent of the author for a translation. While most authors won't 
mind and will in fact be quite flattered and excited that someone is 
translating their work, there are cases where authors are extremely 
opposed to translating their work, especially if they would receive 
no royalties for the translation. This is also important because in 
many cases authors review a translation if it is in a language they 
know and point out problems and make suggestions. Getting the author 
involved at an early stage will help you out and help prevent 
problems. So, if H. Gotschy can be located, inquire directly of him 
about this.


If this is more than anyone cares to deal with, please keep in mind 
that I am coming from a background where things like this are 
important so I am making a bigger deal about this than perhaps I need 
to. I would suggest talking to an active translator about these sorts 
of things. I am not a translator myself, but have been involved in 
the development of technology for computer-assisted translation, 
particularly in the terminology, quality-control, and workflow areas, 
so I am not a good person to talk to about legal specifics.

I suppose if you are low-key enough about the translations and don't 
sell or actively advertise the translation as one would a commercial 
ware, and if you indicate that the translation is to serve as an aid 
for those who have purchased the German book you may be fine.

I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from translating the work 
or any other works. I think we need to see more information 
available. I just want anyone thinking of undertaking anything like 
this be aware of potential issues.

Regards,

Arle

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 08:26:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] New book: Building documentation of a HG.


We're selling this book for $30 plus $5 shipping to US and Canada.
Anywhere else and you're probably better off getting it straight from the
publisher. ;-)

Alden F.M. Hackmann                        darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."



Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:25:59 EST
From: Jlaub357 _at_ aol.com
Subject: [HG] Re: my hg order

   Hi Alden, how's life going?  Mine is rather crazy at the time as I'm 
nearing the completion of my graduate program and internship, all while 
continuing to work full-time.  I'm wondering how the HG orders are going and 
where I'm at on the list?  Hope you and Cali are well!


Judy Laub

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 22:27:31 +0100
From: RA-Szabo-Laszlo _at_ i-one.at
Subject: Re: [HG] Translation of German book - some issues and concerns

Arle is right.
If you start a professional translation with commercial intentions you
cannot ignore the different law in the countries dealing with the right of
intellectual property.
In Austria for example, the author of the translation has to get the right
of distribution from the author. (§ 14/1 austrian int. prop. code). Other
countries know similar rules, and in general in every country the courts
protect intellectual property in accordance with their own rules.
You´ll avoid a lot of problems contacting the author or the editor of the
book you want to translate.
Otherwise it could happen, that you´l create a good translation that you can
only conserve in your private library.
Regards László


= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:16:36 -0600
From: Rob McConnell <robrmcc _at_ mts.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Translation of German book - some issues and concerns

Wow!! Now I'm intimidated!!

I was just planning to do a translation of this book for my own use, Marc
offered to jump on board.  With the length of time it is taking to get
the book from Europe to Canada I suspect he might be done the whole
thing before my copy gets here.

If anyone else is interested in the translation  I was thinking we would
be glad to provide it free of charge, with warts and all. It has to be
with the understanding that:
    A) they must/should  buy an original book, I don't want to cut the
         author out of any revenue, and besides I don't intend to recreate
        the drawings. I doubt that Marc did either.  Of course we can't
        enforce this.
    B) No complaints are allowed, only constructive criticism, and limited
         amounts of that can go a long way.
    C) All are welcome to improve on it as long as they make those
         improvements available to the group.  Sort of like open
         source code arrangements.

Of course not having done anything like this before we could be all old and
greyed haired hurdy gurdiers by the time anything is ready at which time I would
have long since ceased to advertise my incompetence through this news group.

Anyway, I appreciate all the comments below. Some of them will hopefully be
covered
off by the fact that I intend to use the translation myself, so I should be
able to spot the inconsistencies.  I am concerned about the translation
of some of the technical terms which can often prove difficult, but I have some
friends who can hopefully be convinced to review it for me.

Nothing too professional I am afraid!!

Rob McC

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:02:14 -0700
From: Barry Black <bbc0 _at_ home.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Translation of German book - some issues and concerns


I recently purchased a set of Pimpard hg plans. Never thought to inquire
about the language they were in until they arrived and were in French! 
It's 46 years since my last French class so I could not make a lot of
sense out of it.  I wasn't too worried though as my neighbor is a young
engineer gal from Quebec and I assumed that she would be able to
translate it for me.  No way.  The French was Parisian apparently and
also technical, in a musical sense so the literal translation turned out
to be more humorous than helpful.  I finally ran across a Swiss guy who
is also a musician who was able to help me out. 
 This proves Arle's point I think as far as I'm concerned.

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:33:11 -0700
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] Translation of German book - some issues and concerns

Rob,

 From what you say, I think that you should be fine since you are not 
trying in any way to replace the German text, but rather to 
supplement it. As long as the translation is at the humble level you 
describe I seriously doubt any publisher would come after you unless 
you happen to have very deep pockets from another source.

I certainly didn't want to intimidate you. Let me know if you have 
any questions about translation since I am pretty good on the theory 
at least. (My only language pair where I might be competent to 
translate it Hungarian -> English, not one of those high-demand 
areas, so I have to be content with the theory I'm afraid)

Regards,

Arle
= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:17:33 -0500
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Translation of German book - some issues and concerns

Here's my two cents:

If you plan to make your translation available to anyone else other than 
yourself, I think you should definitely check with Helmut Gotschy about 
this, as a common courtesy.  He's certainly reachable, and he'll probably 
be fine with it and most happy that you asked.

~ Matt


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew Szostak - Hurdy-Gurdies
7 Grove Street
Camden, Maine  04843
phone/fax: 207-236-9576
email: gurdy _at_ midcoast.com
website: http://www.midcoast.com/~beechhil/vielle
--------------------------------------------------------------------

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 01:52:45 -0800
From: SW/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Translation of German book - some issues and concerns

Rob,

I too am waiting for my Gotschy book. I speak German and would be happy to
help you with part of the translation for the benefit of those who buy the
book but don't speak German. However , I too feel that Helmut Gotchy's
blessing is the first priority before any translation work can begin.

Juan

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 10:00:35 -0700
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: [HG] Hungarian site redux

Hello everyone,

a few days ago I posted about the Bourdon Trio's webpage being up. 
There is now an English version available at:

http://www.folkinfo.net/bourdon/bour_gb.htm

Most of the material from the Hungarian page is on the English page, 
so you can read the information on the gemshorn and other instruments 
the Trio uses.

Regards,

Arle

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 10:46:59 +0100 (MET)
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ gmx.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Translation of German book - some issues and concerns

Hello,

Some sugestions: 
- take in consideration that Helmut Gotschy is planning to do a translation
anyway, maybe cooperation is possible.
- there is a complete three-language-translation-list of the main HG terms
in the Destrem/Heidemann book. I think this shold only be dismissed if there
is very good reason. 
- If one does a translation and passes it on to another person this will
lead to a kind of public use which the translater may regret later on as he
cannot put it back into the box and therefore shold be done well.
- If there is a professional translation, chances are that Helmut Gotschy
and/or "Der Verlag der Spielleute" is interested in publishing it.

-- 
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria 

http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 20:12:12 +0100
From: Ernst Kainzmeier <kainer _at_ chello.at>
Subject: [HG] HG's on ebay

Hello,

today I found on ebay-Germany several Hurdy-Gurdies for sale:

http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=559921869
http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1410615452
http://cgi.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1410786197

I don't know if one of the offering is interesting for somebody on the list
and I don't know either if the seller do send the instruments outside
Germany (or the EC). But... asking is free!

Ernst
Vienna/Austria

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:05:57 -0800
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Kids books and music with HG

Someone sent us this: 

"I am not sure why exactly, but my two year old daughter has become
facsinated with the hurdy gurdy. Can you recommend any materials
(recordings or picture books) that would be appropriate?"

Any ideas?  I'm fresh out...

Alden 

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:55:10 -0500
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Kids books and music with HG

I seem to recall that RT read about someone who knows somebody who has a 
friend whose co-worker's brother-in-law has a young grandson who actually 
plays the hurdy-gurdy...

Any ideas, RT?

Matt

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 07:56:02 -0800
From: Anna Peekstok <apeekstok _at_ home.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Kids books and music with HG

On 2/19/01 9:05 PM, Alden & Cali Hackmann wrote:

> Any ideas?  I'm fresh out...

I'm not sure why recordings would have to be pitched especially toward
children to be appropriate. After all, music is a universal language, isn't
it? Maybe just recommend some recordings where the HG is clearly audible,
and expose the little one to a variety of music styles so she can decide
what she likes?

Anna Peekstok

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:57:45 +0100
From: www.altemusik.net <thomas _at_ altemusik.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Kids books and music with HG

Hi Folks!

This very right. Kids love HG, especially mine. My son Matthias started to
play HG with everything he found in his toys when he was two years. Now with
eight he convinced me to give him my old french HG. Since a week he is
"rehearsing". It is not sounding that bad!!! - For heaven's sake his father
(that's me) is not playing the violin.

If you want to hear music for kids with HG:
http://www.altemusik.net/mp3immaerzen.htm press the button "Anhören". This
is just one of our children-songs with HG. Unfortunatelly I cannot offer
anything in English.

All the best,

Thomas
http://www.altemusik.net

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:08:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: [HG] Video of Gilles Chabenat?

Does anyone out there have recent videotape of Gilles playing?  At St.
Chartier last year, perhaps?

If you do, please email me privately.  Thank you.

Alden F.M. Hackmann                        darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:18:11 +0200
From: Juulia Salonen <ottilia _at_ saunalahti.fi>
Subject: [HG] Kids books and music with HG

I have noticed the same with my daughter and my pupils at school. Drones
are the fascinating point of hg music.  I have teached kids at school to
listen to intervals and harmonics with hg-drones, as they did in
monasteries 1000 years ago! I'm a Waldorf-school class-teacher.

In teaching medieval history I have a story about travelling musician with
hg. I have written it, but it is very much based on known history about
trubadours and cathari-movement. The theme is the course of ideas and
music through medieval Europe. Characters and events are fictious, but
possible.


= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 04:16:06 -0500 (EST)
From: whirling _at_ earthling.net
Subject: [HG] Great Masters of Hurdy Gurdy CD

Hi all,

If anyone does the eBay thing, they might want to check out an auction
that's currently up for Valentin Clastrier's Great Masters... CD, one of
the more exotic and avant-garde items in the hurdy gurdy discography. The
CD is out of print, so this might be of interest to those who have been
hunting for a copy,

Interested parties can find more info at <www.ebay.com>

Do a search for "Clastrier " and it should come up!

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:38:11 +0100
From: www.altemusik.net <thomas _at_ altemusik.net>
Subject: Re:  [HG] Kids books and music with HG

Hi Juulia!

Interesting to hear from you about your teaching, because I am
professionally travelling all over Austria making courses refering to early
music and the instruments.

Maybe not only I am interested in your HG-story. Maybe is possible to post
it??? I love the mixture of medieval knowledge and fiction!!!

So long,

Thomas
_____________________________

AMSA
Alte Musik Salzburg Austria
http://www.altemusik.net/index.html
eMail: thomas _at_ altemusik.net

Thomas M. Schallaböck
Erzabt-Klotz-Strasse 27
A - 5020 Salzburg
Tel & Fax: 00 43 / 662 / 831 002
Mobil: 0043 / 664 / 33 78 522
______________________________

Kaltenhauser Mittelalter 16.6.2001
Österreichs größtes Miitelalterfest
südlich der Stadt Salzburg
______________________________
= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:08:50 -0700
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: [HG] Childen, drones and harmonics

Hi everyone,

a few weeks ago I had a chance to go into a school again and play for 
the local sixth grade's Medieval feast. While my HG is not medieval, 
they were not too worried about the anachronism (how could they when 
they had kids wearing "armor" made of Hefty Steel Sack garbage bags 
with "helmets" made from old gallon ice cream tubs?). I also played 
Hungarian duda for them. In any event I think it really is the drone 
sound and the harmonics that captivates children. They really liked 
my drone instruments and my mouth harp (which shares a lot of 
acoustic characteristics with drone instruments and works on the 
harmonic series), but my crumhorn they could care less about.

-Arle

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:26:08 -0800
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Kids books and music with HG

OK Matt, I can take a hint.

Yes, I have a little Hurdy Gurdy player in the family.
He is my Grandson named Max. Is that short for Maxou?
He has been playing on his own Hurdy Gurdy since he was about 18 months old.
He is now about 3 and a half years old now, so he has been playing for more
than half of his entire life. He plays a small diatonic HG made by  Brian
Tolly.

He is very happy composing his own tunes which sometimes contain only 1 or 2
different notes. I think he has been influenced too much by John Cage's
minimalist music. The HG has a great dog and is easy to play. His natural
rhythm is coup de trios which he plays more precisely than I do. I guess I
have to wait until he is 4 years old until he will play coup de 4.

Anyway he and many other very young kids love the instrument. I think they
are drawn to both the drone and buzzing sound. Max and most other kids seem
to prefer the fast tunes and no singing. His favorite CD's are from Patrick
Bouffard, La Chavannee ( the tunes without the singing), Machiavel and some
group called French Creek.

I play at a lot of street festivals and I am always amazed at the focused
attention that is played to our instruments by young kids from babies to
about 7 years old. Some of them want to stay and listen to our music much
longer than their parents. Or you can see them dragging their parents back
time and again so that they can watch and listen. I almost always let these
kids come up and  play with me. I get them addicted young as you can tell.
Many of them have a natural ability to play the dog in rhythm with the
music.

So in answer to this woman's question I would recommend the following:
1    Buy the CD's and play them when the kid is interested in listening. And
dance or move to the music. There are a few children's books that are about
"hurdy gurdys" but these are actually barrel organs, so stay away from that
if you want to be a purist.
2    Buy or rent the movie Captains Courageous and play only the scenes with
Spencer Tracy pretending to play the Hurdy Gurdy.
3    Take the kid on a nice vacation to St. Chartier this summer.
4    Place an order for a nice Hurdy Gurdy as soon as possible.
5    I am not sure how open minded the parents are, but do you think that
one of the "Men of the over the Water Hurdy Gurdy festival" calendars is
OK????

r.t.

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:14:58 -0500
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] HG Story ,


The one story about HG that I remember from childhood is the one about
Richard Coeur de Lion ( Lion heart ?)  who was kidnapped for ransom
on his way from the crusade . Nobody knew where he was kept
prisoner but one of his minstrel started on a trip , playing his HG
around  every castle he found on his way , in the hope that his
master would recognise his compositions .

Now it could have been a "Vielle " ( HG ) or a Vičle ( Rebec , fiddle )
Anyway , Richard finally came back home ( er... for Richard , "home "
was Chateau-Gaillard , in Aquitaine , France ) I mean back to business
in England and gave Robin Hood back his estate .

Now go to bed <g>.

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Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:53:50 -0500
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Kids books and music with HG

I agree that dancing is very early in a child's responce.
What could be more cute.
Kids appreciate a nice sterio.
The hurdy-gurdy is very visual.
Any drone can make kids dance and run and twirl.
Try it with them.
Zhenya, my two year old, says "gurgy-gurgy."
She's very cute.
The kids like Viellistic Orchestra and Valentin.
They love trac 8 on Pierre Imbert's Cordes En Folie CD./j.

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:41:38 -0800
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: [HG] HG by  Jackie Raegade for  sale on ebay.


A few months ago I asked if anyone knew anything about a maker named
Jackie Raegade.Well here is your chance to see one of his vielles on the
web.
 
I went to take a look and evaluate this instrument in San Francisco. If
anyone is really interested in it, please contact me off the list.
 
r.t.
 
 
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1411223955

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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:07:17 +0100
From: Philippe Viron <pviron _at_ club-internet.fr>
Subject: Re: [HG] HG Story ,

----- Original Message -----
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>

[...]

( er... for Richard , "home "
| was Chateau-Gaillard , in Aquitaine , France ) I mean back to
business
| in England and gave Robin Hood back his estate .


Thanks for the story.
But Chateau-Gaillard is in Normandie, not in Aquitaine.

--
Phil Viron


= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:43:43 -0000
From: michael.i.ross _at_ bt.com
Subject: [HG] Martin Turner

Has anyone seen /played a HG by Martin Turner?

I have found a box HG made by him for Ł700

I am going to see it on Saturday. Being a first time buyer, what should I
look for?

Thanks

Michael Ross

= = = = = = = = = = = = =


From: SW/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re(2): [HG] Kids books and music with HG


I illustrate children's books for a living and I have been looking for a
story about hurdy gurdies to illustrate. I have come across one called
"The Hurdy Gurdy Man".  I think it was published in the 1920's or 30's,
but the hurdy gurdy in question turned out to be the barrel organ kind,
complete with monkey. I have since written my own hurdy gurdy story and
came within a hair's breath of getting it published.  Maybe I'll get it
out of mothballs again. In the meantime I have sneaked hurdy gurdies into
my illustrations whenever I can.

There is also a children's opera called 'Brundibar' which apparently means
bumblebee and refers to 'the evil hurdy gurdy man' a refernce to his
temperament or maybe the sound of his instrument. Again, it is not clear
from the English libretto what kind of hurdy gurdy we are talking about,
but given that the hurdy gurdy man is evil I would say the wrong kind.

I have seen a couple of illustrated French books (recent publications)  
that feature hurdy gurdies but I don't recall their names, perhaps other
list members know.

Juan Wijngaard

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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:12:07 -0500
From: A.J. Bashore II <noizmkr _at_ uplink.net>
Subject: [HG] New Member

Hiya folks,

Love the HG. Don't Have one. Never Played one. Know about them and
the sound for years and years. Love the HG. Don't know which to buy.
Alas, someday maybe will have and play one. I play so many other
things, only an HG and 8va Mando and a few whistles and a chromatic
accordion would round out my MIAS (multiple instrument
acquisition syndrome.) I play Mt. Dulcimer for many years and Mando
family instruments and other things, too. I play solo and in a small
(7-member) ensemble and sometimes as a guest in other groups. I have
met quite a few HG players over the years and still have not been
able to find a player to let me try out my skill on the instrument.
Well, Hello to all. I expect to have some fun here. I really do Love
the Sound of the HG!!

In harmony, A.J.

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:48:00 -0800
From: Anna Peekstok <apeekstok _at_ home.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Martin Turner

On 2/22/01 3:43 AM, michael.i.ross _at_ bt.com wrote:

> Being a first time buyer, what should I
> look for?

1. Take off the wheel cover if there is one and look at the wheel. The
playing surface should look smooth and clean, with no gouges, scratches,
bumps, or pits.

2. Take all the strings off the wheel (they should all have bridge slots or
pegs to prevent them from touching the wheel). Turn the crank while watching
the wheel from above the HG looking down. The wheel should not wobble from
side to side.

3. Set the instrument on a table, near the edge so you can turn the crank.
Crouch or sit behind the crank so your eyes are level with the HG
soundboard. Turn the crank and watch the wheel. It should turn smoothly with
no higher or lower areas as it goes around.

4. While turning the crank with no strings on the wheel, listen and feel for
any hitch or clunking in the motion. The crank/wheel/shaft should not have
much play in any direction; turning it should be the only motion you can
easily make with it.

5. Look inside the keybox. Are all the tangents present and accounted for?
You should probably also find out how easy each one of those puppies is to
tune; a stuck tangent is a pain in the butt. You can fix it, but you should
know about it before buying the instrument.

6. With the strings still off the wheel, strap the HG on in correct playing
position, tilted a bit so the keys/tangents will all drop down off the
strings (open the keybox to check). Close the keybox and put your left hand
on its lid, bending your fingers down to depress the keys. Push each key in
and then let go. The keys should move in smoothly and drop smoothly and
quickly back to the original position without excess play or rattle against
the hole in the keybox. Sticky keys can be fixed, but again it's better to
know about them before buying the instrument.

7. The chanter strings inside the keybox should pass over a moveable nut at
the far end of the keybox (between the tangents and the tuning pegs). Can
you move the nut? (Try moving it VERY slightly; the position of this nut is
crucial to getting the instrument in tune.)

8. Can you or the seller get the instrument to play in tune? Is the tone
smooth and pleasant? Does the dog work?

Anna Peekstok
Seattle, WA

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Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:54:06 -0800
From: Katie Roe <taddea _at_ wizards.com>
Subject: Re(2): [HG] Kids books and music with HG

Juan, I do hope you can get that story published. Please try again!  For
anyone not familiar with Juan's work, you are missing a great treat. I was
incredibly lucky to purchase a wonderful and extremely beautiful painting
of his at last year's Over the Water Hurdy Gurdy Festival of a woman
playing a luteback. He was gracious enough to donate it to the Festival
for the silent auction.  I also got a chance to see a small format book he
illustrated.  All I can say is WOW!!!  And when he finishes his new HG
take a look at the head. Never have I seen a more delicate and detailed
head, and it wasn't even finished!  She looked as though she could come to
life. 

So try publishing it again, Juan. 

Katie Roe

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Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:29:43 +0100
From: www.altemusik.net <thomas _at_ altemusik.net>
Subject: [HG] Neues auf www.altemusik.net

Heute schon reif für das Wochenende?

Wir laden Sie herzlich zu unserem ersten Versuch ein, spielerische Elemente
auf unserer Homepage einzubauen:

http://www.altemusik.net
Klicken Sie bitte auf das Bild und versuchen Sie Ihr Geschick!


Mit lieben Grüssen zum Wochenende,

Thomas M. Schallaböck


P.S.: Beachten Sie das Datum für da 2. Kaltenhauser Mittelalterfest:
16.6.2001
http://www.altemusik.net/kaltenhausen2001.htm

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:36:20 +0100
From: René Meeuws <meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl>
Subject: Re: [HG] Kids books and music with HG


----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Van: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Onderwerp: Re: [HG] Kids books and music with HG

> ....... trac 8 on Pierre Imbert's Cordes En Folie CD./j.

What's that? I don't know that CD! Label? Number?

Thanks,

René Meeuws

meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

	
Date:  Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:50:17 +0100
From: allemeersch _at_ devil1.delight.be (Luc Allemeersch, Delight Information
Systems)
Subject: [HG] new list member

Hello,

A few days ago I subscribed to this list, so I may as well introduce
myself. I am 46 years old and live in the beautiful town Brugge (Bruges),
in the Flanders region of Belgium. For a living, I work as a computer
specialist
doing relational database administration. 
My first contact with traditional dance and music, was in late 1974 when
one of my closest friends, created a traditional dance group which I
joined right away. So I started as a dancer. 
During a week long dance course around Christmas 1978, I had the privilege
to listen and watch Bernard Blanc an Frederic Paris playing the 
Bourbonnais hurdygurdy in re/sol. The sound and the beauty of the instrument
got me hooked. This was what I wanted to do. In may 1979 I bought
my first luth shaped hurdygurdy in sol/do from Jean-Marc Panhaleux in
Lille, in the north of France. He was basically a violin builder and,
as far as I know only made five hurdygurdys. I think I have number three.
Afterwards he specialised in making violon bows(?, archet in french) and today
has a great reputation for that. At that time I attended four or five
courses, by coincidence each time with Marc Anthony, learned the
hurdygurdy basics, went to Saint-Chartier a few times, etc... but.
Having a degree in agricultural engineering, it was quite difficult
to find a job, so in 1981 I decided to go back to university for three
years and study computer science. This meant I stopped playing the hurdygurdy.
Afterwards, I got married, got two sons, and worked full time in Brussels 
for american computer companies Burroughs, Unisys, Digital and Oracle. 
In 1998 I changed jobs again and joined my actual employer, much closer
to Bruges. It made me think about restarting my life long project, the 
hurdygurdy. From time to time I played again. 
In january 2000 I ordered a new instrument to Bernard Kerboeuf in La Chbtre,
and in november last year I got a splendid Jenzat style hurdygurdy,
a real beauty. My Panhaleux instrument stayed with Bernard for a checkup. 
So here I am again struggling to get a 'coup de trois en
montant' out, but I am determined to succeed this time.
Meanwhile, I discovered this list, and I am very happy to join a worldwide
hurdygurdy community at large. A great initiative.

Best Regards,

_Luc

home:
Luc Allemeersch
Ten Putte 45
B-8200 Sint-Michiels Brugge, Belgium
voice: +32-50-38.45.40

work:
Luc Allemeersch                             voice +32-59-554575
Database Administrator                      fax   +32-59-806888
Delight Information Systems / Airtours plc  mailto:luc.allemeersch _at_ delight.be
Archimedesstraat 7, Bus 6                   http://www.delight.be
B-8400 Oostende, Belgium                    http://www.airtours.com

= = = = = = = = = = = = =


Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:45:57 -0800
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Kids books and music with HG

This is a CD by Pierre Imbert's  new group called Cordes En Folie CD.

The CD is called   O Expresso
You can buy it at Amazon.com

It is a great CD with some very interesting  new music.


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000056KUM/
qid%3D982968143/107-5112441-6497305

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Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 13:28:17 -0800
From: SW/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re(2): [HG] Kids books and music with HG

Aw shucks, Katie!

Juan

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 11:46:31 -0500
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: [HG] Schubert

For someone to help with german.// from, jim, in Maine
It bothered me that some web pages list movement 24 of Schubert's Die
Winterreise by translating it this way:

Drüben hinterm Dorfe steht ein Leiermann.
    There, behind the village, stands an organ-grinder .

I feel that the organ grinder's box in no way whatsoever needs to be a drone
sound, not any more than a player piano would. In hearing Schubert's piece,
it is clearly our kind of drone, hurdy gurdy.
The poem is so moving by the way, if someone want's me to put the entire
last text here. But it must be so sadly wrong to call it an organ grinder./
forgive me here, the original is of course in German, written by Wilhelm
Mutter, 1794-1827.
May I substitute here hurdy-gurdy man instead of organ grinder for
leiermann?

There, behind the village, stands a hurdy-gurdy man
 And with numb fingers he plays the best he can.
 Barefoot on the ice, he staggers back and forth,
 And his little plate remains ever empty.
 No one wants to hear him, no one looks at him,
 And the hounds snarl at the old man.
 And he lets it all go by, everything as it will,
 He plays, and his hurdy gurdy is never still.
 Strange old man, shall I go with you?
 Will you play your organ to my songs?
= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:04:49 +0100
From: www.altemusik.net <thomas _at_ altemusik.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Schubert

You are right!

A german group, "Des Geyers schwarzer Haufen", made many years ago a
recording of Schubert's song acompaning the singer with a HG. What a
wonderful idea! What a sound!

Already Schubert wanted to copy the HG-sound to the piano using a bordun,
because he could not do it with a HG. In this time the HG had in Austria and
Germany already a bad reputation. You could not use it for a performance
when you audience was the elite because it was known as a beggar instrument.
Everybody knew the sound. You could listen it walking through Vienna. The
more Schubert impressed his audience bringing this sound into piano-music.

Thomas

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Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:03:52 +0100
From: René Meeuws <meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl>
Subject: Re: [HG] Schubert

There's no doubt that Schubert meant a hurdy-gurdy in the last song of the
"Winterreise". You can conclude that from the music, as Jim wrote. But
Schubert also composed the song "An die Leier": in the text comes up
"playing strings"; this "Leier" was certainly not an organ!
The hurdy-gurdy at this period was known in Germany from the poor children
from the Savoyarde region (French Alpes) who were travelling and begging
around, showing for money their marmots at the markets. That's what the
famous song "Lied des Marmottenbuben" (Beethoven & Goethe) is about!
I know several CD-recordings of the Winterreise: I couldn't find one where
"Leiermann" was translated with "hurdy-gurdy man or player"; it's always
"organ-grinder".
Some years ago I saw a visualised performance of the complete Winterreise in
dutch TV. At the end there was a man playing a hurdy-gurdy; in the subtitles
you could read: ..... organ-grinder .......

Greetings from Holland,

René Meeuws

meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: [HG] Music on Amazon.com


This message is in reply to RT's reference to the Cordes En Folie CD 
available for purchase through Amazon.com.  It isn't a rant, but it is an
opinioned commentary, so anyone who doesn't want to hear me whine can just
throw this message in the trash!

Amazon is a great resource for buying music, for sure.  It's "one-stop
shopping" for a lot of different things.  And, it's easy to have your
recordings SOLD there as well - my partner Anne Dodson and I found this
out.  All you have to do is register there and make up your listing.

Here's the problem (for independent artists like Anne, anyway) - it's sort
of a consignment deal: when someone orders her music from Amazon, she gets
an email about the order(s), and she has to send the recording(s) to Amazon
(they don't pay for the shipping).  THEY send it along to their customer
(they get paid for the shipping).  They don't keep inventory themselves,
and they don't drop ship (drop shipping is where the seller (Amazon) pays
the manufacturer or supplier (Anne), who would then ship directly to the
final customer).  Although they charge the same retail price that Anne
charges herself ($15; Amazon also charges more for shipping), Amazon not
only pays Anne less than normal distributor price, but LESS than wholesale
price for the recordings they're re-selling.  We figured the actual per
unit cost of Anne's newest cd, adding the cost of recording and production,
plus the costs of the first printing (2000 units): per CD, we lose money on
every CD sold through Amazon.

We sell all of her available recordings direct; they're all listed on her
website.  Amazon (for obvious reasons) doesn't provide for links to artist
websites, nor do they advertise the fact that they have Anne's recordings -
anyone ordering Anne's music on Amazon must be looking specifically for
it.  A simple search would lead someone looking for Anne's music directly
to us, and we wouldn't lose money on every sale.

Now obviously, she isn't forced to sell recordings through Amazon.  It's
her choice.  She decided to try it just as an experiment.  The frustrating
thing is, she sells quite a few CDs through Amazon.  Despite the money
loss, she's continuing to sell a couple of her recordings through them,
getting her music out there to those who might not otherwise hear
it.  Hopefully they'll like it and look for more.

I guess the point of all this is, if you're looking for a recording,
especially one that isn't on a major label, please make the effort to buy
it from the source.  You'll probably be doing the artist a favor by helping
them to actually make money on their efforts.

That's enough!  I've gotta get down off my soapbox and go check out what's
new on Amazon...

~ Matt

ps:  I couldn't find any other internet source for O Expresso...

pps: But my local music store (not a big chain) can order it...


= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:53:24 +0100
From: www.altemusik.net <thomas _at_ altemusik.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Schubert

don't want to be impertinent, but schubert was born and lived in austria!

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 00:00:20 +0100
From: René Meeuws <meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl>
Subject: Re: [HG] Schubert

Take a look at http://www.tmcdesigns.com/
Click on Table of Content, click on page 21 or 22.

Met vriendelijke groet,

René Meeuws
meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:08:07 +0100 (CET)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: [HG] Pictures at an exibition

Hi

Yesterday I went to an exibition in Cremona, about musical instruments .

There are lot of  fine pictures and some musical instruments too.

There are EVEN hurdy-gurdy pictures (amongst the others two De la Tour,
one is the famous "Beggar's quarreling" from Paul Getty's Museum in Los
Angeles) and two hurdy-gurdies (one is the Colson from Florence Music
Academy....I put my hands on it when I went there to make my Lambert
copy).

The exibition worts a visit even if you don't care about gurdies and it
will be held in Austria the next April. Europeans are warned!

If you love gurdies DON'T read the bullshits (sorry...) they wrote about
gurdies in the catalogue....just look at the pictures and say "I play
hurdy-gurdy because it's easy to play....it's so easy to play that even a
blind can play it".....


=====
Marcello Bono

my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045


= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:19:18 +0100 (MET)
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ gmx.at>
Reply-To: hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com
To: hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Schubert

Hello,

in Vienna, in the time  Schubert lived here, hurdy gurdy was a very normal
instrument used for country style dance music, ballades and moritates singing,
played by dance musicians and street musicians, beggars. "Leier",
"Leierkasten" were used as name for hurdy gurdy. Later on the same term "Leierkasten"
was used for the barrel organ. The last examples of music, names of players
and pictures of HG players can be found in Vienna during the 1850 -ies.

I am sure the "Leiermann" is a hurdy gurdy player. (there is a well known
classically educated singer and hurdy gurdy player here in Vienna whose name is
Eberhard Kummer who did this song in concerts).

Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria 

http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:22:08 -0500
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Schubert


from, jim, maine
I attempt here to make up for my misspelling his last name. These details
give attention to the author of the text about the hurdy-gurdy man in the
musical work by Franz Schubert:
Johann Ludwig Wilhelm Müller, in short Wilhelm Müller, was known also as
Griechen-Müller (Müller of the Greeks) because of his enthusiasm and
admiration for the Greek fight for independence from the Turks.
He was born in Dessau on the 7th of October 1794 and died there, too, of
a heart attack on the 1st of October 1827.
Beginning with the year 1812 he studied in Berlin. In 1813 he joined the
Prussian army.
His fame as an author was established beginning with 1821.
The year 1824 saw his poetical breakthrough: the Waldhornisten poems that
include the Schöne Müllerin and the Winterreise.
Franz Schubert discovered Die Winterreise in the Urania publication. He
set this cycle of 12 poems to music, but only later discovered the 12
other poems. He kept the order of the Lieder which he had already
composed, and added the 12 other Lieder in the same order as they were
published./
 
= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:09:14 -0800
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] New Member

Hello A.J.

I know how it is when you want to try an instrument and just can not find
one to try out. Of course most people that play delicate, valuable
instruments like a Hurdy Gurdy are reluctant to let people play them.

But I am sure that if you let us know where you live, you might find one of
us nearby that is willing to let you get your chance to try it out ( that is
part of our secrete way of getting people addicted to playing Hurdy Gurdy
anyway)

Another good way is to go to workshops, festivals etc. Of course if you are
anywhere near the west coast of America you are in real luck. You can always
find a lot of people that will be more than happy to meet you and get you
cranking.

r.t.

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:20:10 -0000
From: michael.i.ross _at_ bt.com
Subject: RE: [HG] Muskett tutor search

I know this is while old - but I got a copy of Muskett from Hobgoblin (UK)
for Ł20

It may be worth looking on the USA site http://www.hobgoblin-usa.com

Michael


= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:05:17 -0800
From: "Meador, John" <john.meador _at_ unistudios.com>
Subject: [HG] Clean and Pure sounding notes 

To all:

I have been having some issues adjusting my instrument to obtain a
"clean and pure" pitch on the chantrells.

The instrument is currently tuned in g/c.
	
The problem notes are:

		e, f and a'
 
with g being pitch of the open string. When I press these keys, the pitch
of each of these notes is not true. Often the 4th or the 5th harmonic
overtone will be more dominant than the tonic pitch. For example, the note
'e' will sound more like an 'a' or 'b' pitch rather ( wavering between the
harmonics and the tonic)  than the pitch 'e'.

I have tried adjusting and shaving the tangents and this helps a bit does not 
provide the complete solution.

One thing I have tried, is to apply cotton on the chantrells in a tapered
fashion.  When I apply the cotton evenly across the string , the pitch
produced seems to have more harmonics.  When I apply a bit more cotton to
the portion of the string closer to the keybox( in somewhat of a
taper/conical form) the pitch produced for the problem notes has less
overtones.

Any help or suggestions, would be appreciated.

	Thanks.


 John Meador
 Universal Music Group
 UMVD Category Management Data Warehouse
 Phone:  (818) 777-5325
 Email:  John.Meador _at_ unistudios.com

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:59:27 -0000
From: graham <graham _at_ altongate.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] Clean and Pure sounding notes 

I had exactly the same problem, in my case it was caused by the chanterelles
being too high at the nut (tuning peg end) and not being exactly parallel to
the wheel surface, hence your tapered cottoning which compensates for this.

I simply sanded the nuts down to lower the strings. I had to remove quite a
lot of wood and the strings then were just high enough to not touch the key
shafts when vibrating.

I remember being astonished at the difference the adjustment made.

If you take off too much it is easy to pack the nuts up again.

I found that glueing very fine sandpaper to the under side of the nuts
(rough side showing) is very useful in stopping the nuts moving about.

I hope this helps, it worked for me.

Graham Whyte
graham _at_ altongate.co.uk

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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:15:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Clean and Pure sounding notes 


Graham's suggestions sound like good ones.  You can evaluate how good the
contact is between the string and the wheel with a piece of cigarette
paper - Marcello showed us this technique at the festival last year, and
I've been using it ever since, because the paper can feel what the eye
cannot see.

With no cotton on, turn the wheel evenly, and insert the corner or edge of
a cigarette paper (not the gummed edge!) at the junction between the wheel
and the string.  If the pressure is just right, it will slip in smoothly,
with a little drag, and can be pulled out with a little drag as well. If
the string pressure is too heavy, the paper won't fit, or will be very
hard to remove once it slips in between.  If it's too light or not
touching at all at a certain point, the paper will slip right in and right
out again, no drag at all.

If you do file the nuts down, be sure that you don't file so far that the
string runs into the tops of the keys.  Also be sure that the deeper notch
is in the same place - it's easy to move it side to side without meaning
to.

Alden

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Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 23:13:55 -1000
From: Don V. Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Music on Amazon.com

For those very reasons I refused to sell my CD's through Amazon.

MP3.com is a much better deal.

Don

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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:20:43 +0100 (MET)
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ gmx.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Clean and Pure sounding notes


Hello John,

I think thes are very common trouble notes. My sugestions, some are a little
bit ignorant some may sound odd: 

Change the pitch of the open string and find out if the troubles move to the
now referring keys. This would mean it is a pitch related trouble (such
things happen). 
Try to put some softer material onto the tangent(frett), a heat shrink
tubing or some silicone tube. This will supress the harmonics a little bit, but
just on the notes in question.
does the tangent(frett) sit on the key(slide) fully, especially on the
string side, is it well fixed in the hole?
change the mass (form ,lenght, size, material) of the tangent(frett) 

Are you sure the tangent in question touches the string perfectly synchron?
make sure the string is really ok.
search for other string material
maybe the distance between wheel and bridge is not ideal
Try more rosin and less pressure on the string.
Is it really the g (g of violin) or the g'? If it is the g of violin, is
this your first "lower than normal" string expirience? In this case it also may
be a problem of your playing touch and can be solved by mere practicing.

--
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria 

http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/

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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:42:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Chiara Negro <ghiro_chi _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: [HG] R Schubert

Hello List,
a very very good introduction with finally the correct
translation is in the CD n. 30, Winterraise, of the
Hyperion Schubert Edition ( Matthias Goerne baritone,
Graham Johnson piano ), this interpretation is also
very moving.
Ciao, Chiara

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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 12:52:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Chiara Negro <ghiro_chi _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: [HG] Szérény Béla

Hello List,
I try to send an email to Szérény Béla, but he not
reply to me. How can I contact him ? Unfortunately I
don't speek Hungarian and I cannot telephone !
Ciao, Chiara

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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:51:24 -0700
From: arle lommel <fenevad _at_ ttt.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] SzČrČny BČla

Chiara,

I can help with this. Although I can't call him I would be happy to 
translate any requests of a reasonable length and send them on to him 
via e-mail. He might be more inclined to respond to e-mail in 
Hungarian.

-Arle

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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:05:03 -0800
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] Music on Amazon.com

But Amazon don't appear to be doing very well either! It's an ill wind
etc.......

I managed to get a copy of the Destrem book through www.amazon.de with the
help of Ernst Kainzmeier,  after being defeated by the original publishers
ordering procedure (in German). Being already familiar with the English
Amazon order made it possible.

Finding anything is easy if you know where to look, and Amazon for CDs and
books is probably the first stop for most people.

Matthew Szostak, I will feel dutifully and genuinely guilty with my next
Amazon order now that I know what is behind the scenes.

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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:48:13 -0800
From: R. Lebedeva <rlebedeva _at_ home.com>
Subject: [HG] Seattle/Tacoma/Olympia Area Gurdyists?


	Is everybody ok??

	For those of you who don't know, Western Washington was hit mid-morning
with a 6.8 earthquake.  No fatalities, and only 30 injuries reported so
far in the entire quake area.  Some older buildings were damaged pretty
extensively, and some cars totaled by falling bricks, but we were lucky!

	~~Rachael, safe in West Seattle


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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:08:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Seattle/Tacoma/Olympia Area Gurdyists?


Cali reports all is well on the home front, with very minor damage to the
shop: a butane torch took a nosedive off a shelf, but everything else was
OK.

Luckily we had just installed a set of ceiling hooks for storing
instruments-in-progress, so many of the things that might have jumped off
the workbenches just swayed a little bit. ;-)

Alden F.M. Hackmann                        darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."


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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:20:16 -0500
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Seattle/Tacoma/Olympia Area Gurdyists?

> Luckily we had just installed a set of ceiling hooks for storing
> instruments-in-progress, so many of the things that might have jumped 
> off the workbenches just swayed a little bit. ;-)


OH, YEAH!!!! HOOORAY!!!! Keep sanding....

judith

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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:15:40 EST
From: DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Seattle/Tacoma/Olympia Area Gurdyists?

Hi Alden,

Any news on my gurdy.   Is it waiting-in-progress?  :-)

Jake:  anxiously awaiting the birth of his baby gurdy
__

Castle Keep on mp3:  www.mp3.com/castlekeep
Callithumpian Band on mp3:  www.mp3.com/callithumpianband
Celtic Disco mp3 radio station: www.mp3.com/stations/celtic_disco

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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 18:26:43 -0800
From: R. Lebedeva <rlebedeva _at_ home.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Seattle/Tacoma/Olympia Area Gurdyists?

Jake wrote:

> Hi Alden,
> 
> Any news on my gurdy.   Is it waiting-in-progress?  :-)
> 
> Jake:  anxiously awaiting the birth of his baby gurdy
__

	Oh, me, too!  But mine is still a twinkle in my eye! <laugh>

	~~Rachael, glad to hear that Alden and Cali (and the embryonic gurdies)
are safe...

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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 23:46:19 EST
From: DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Seattle/Tacoma/Olympia Area Gurdyists?

judith _at_ taar.com writes:

      Hey, now, JAKE!!! Just a
      cotton-pickin' minnit! (she said,
      elbowing him out of the way....)

      judith


Youse wimmin are all the same.  Always pushing me around :-)

I've been waiting a year and a half for my baby.   I met Cali at the New
England Folk Festival last year when we played there and we took a photo
of
the hurdy gurdy and I show all my coworkers what my baby is going to look
like.

I have over 50 instruments and none has matched the excitement of waiting
for
my hurdy gurdy.

Expectant dad Jake
__

Castle Keep on mp3:  www.mp3.com/castlekeep
Callithumpian Band on mp3:  www.mp3.com/callithumpianband
Celtic Disco mp3 radio station: www.mp3.com/stations/celtic_disco

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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 23:35:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Earthquake  in Seattle


Marcello -

Cali and Justin and I are fine, I talked to Chris Wright early this
afternoon, she's fine - Anna's out of town, Marjy is in Pennsylvania... I
haven't heard from anyone else yet...

Alden F.M. Hackmann                        darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."


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Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 23:39:19 -0800
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Earthquake .

 Is it because of the music instruments that produced
counter harmonics that protected the house ?<g>

Bravo Cali et Alden ,

Monique et Henry

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