Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List - June 2002
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Our deepest thanks to Maxou Heintzen for this fabulous photograph, taken at Saint-Cloud near Paris in 1957 by an unknown photographer.
The following are the archives of the Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List, sponsored by Alden and Cali Hackmann of Olympic Musical Instruments.
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Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 14:48:15 +0200
From: Lauwers.P <Lauwers.P _at_ itc.mil.be>
Subject: [HG] Hurdy-Gurdy amplification
Who knows of good systems for hurdy gurdy amplification?
Pieter Lauwers
Reaction:
Lauwers.p _at_ itc.mil.be <mailto:Lauwers.p _at_ itc.mil.be>
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Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 16:05:29 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hurdy-Gurdy amplification
Es schrieb "Lauwers.P":
>
> Who knows of good systems for hurdy gurdy amplification?
those makers I know do offer amplified HG's regulary, maybe others do
too.
in alphabetic order:
http://www.gotschy.com
Denis Siorat
Les Fonts
Saint-Georges-de-Lévéjac
F-48500 La Canourgue
France
Alexander Seidler
Schuetzgasse 16/7
A-8020 Graz
Austria
http://www.weichselbaumer.cc
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Date: Fri, 31 May 2002 17:08:06 +0200
From: René Meeuws <meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hurdy-Gurdy amplification
The adress of Denis Siorat since three years:
Ortizet
F-48200 St. Pierre le Vieux
France
fax 0033-466313119
e-mail: siorat _at_ wanadoo.fr
website: http://perso.wanadoo.fr/xaime/vielle/construc/siorata.htm
René Meeuws from Holland
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Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 10:10:27 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hurdy-Gurdy amplification
Hello,
René Meeuws:
> The adress of Denis Siorat since three years:
> Ortizet
> F-48200 St. Pierre le Vieux
I took the obviously outdated adress from the hurdy gurdy homepage (and
could not identify the siorat site in the google results) maybe the
adress on the hurdy gurdy homepage could be updated betimes.
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 01:36:52 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hurdy-Gurdy amplification
>
>I took the obviously outdated adress from the hurdy gurdy homepage (and
>could not identify the siorat site in the google results) maybe the
>adress on the hurdy gurdy homepage could be updated betimes.
Indeed it ought to be. I have to admit that when I built the site I had no
idea how much maintenance was involved, so some parts have languished. I'm
hoping to set up some sort of rotating schedule for keeping everything
updated. But in the meantime, there are HG's in the shop crying out to be
built...
;-)
Alden
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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 10:27:14 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] chit chat
Good morning all...
It's a windy, cool day in Maine today (June 1st.)
I have this lute-back and I am working on understanding the buzz patterns. I
do know that it is bog subject. I don't mean to seem impatient. I feel a
little obsessed, or possessed, but all with a bit of humor along the way.
I will list some questions I have. I think it seems so nice the way Simon is
always there to help with such thoughtful advice.
Also "hi" to my neighbor (70 miles south) Matthew . Now
that the opera is done, I'll be thinking more in terms of sea kayaking from
the pier there in Belfast. May be I can see you sometime in June?
I've leaned now that four people in the state of
Maine own hurdy gurdys. Matthew--who keeps about 55 of them by the front
door so that one must step over them to come in (just kidding a little)--
a friend of Matthew's he tells me, myself now, and finally a man in southern
Maine who
seems to be a very serious player of French music, but is not on this list.
I guess he is a quiet man,
at least he seems that way. I met him in connection to a jazz job here, and
because of his son and homeschooling.
This is Louis Sinclair, and he once wrote a review which could have been
spotted in one issue: HGS (muskett) Sinfonye: No. 7, Summer 1993, pg. 27.
But anyway, everyone who hears about my having a hurdy gurdy, and my
willingness to show them,
seems at first more than interested.
The most remarkable and nice reactions so far may have been the
first and second chair violinists in the Bangor symphony. One of them said
that he has a viola d'amore and no one generally to play with on that. He
wanted start to play Spanish melodies with me to try it all out that way.
Also, I picked up the regular gig of that elderly party once a month. Not
too much
pressure, just may be Edelweiss in C, along with about five other sweet
songs. It paid
$25 last time, all in unexpected/unasked for tips.
I composed two folk song melodies so far, and then forgot a third one after
I thought of it one day.
I have a favorite melody of Valse a Bouffard, but I find that I have to sort
of "fine tune" this a little for my own ability--or lack of. For example
the rise to the high E. Then of course it requires the pinky to find the low
E right after than. Often I fail to stretch enough and play the F instead. I
easily do a single stroke pattern there in that waltz. I suppose I should
end this letter and practice more... I see where I should try the pattern
that is louder with the buzz upward, then 1 1/2 turns and the next accent
buzz on the bottom. Muskett terms that a Quick triple time.
So far I also do one Hungarian melody and one Ukrainian one...
I hope this letter doesn't seem too boring. When I first signed onto this
list, I had once hoped that more folks here would write in this style, sort
of
chatting about this and that. I thought I'd allow for this rare mood and
write in
this way.
What interests me is not only the construction concepts, but also where
people play out with the hurdy gurdy and the reactions it gets. As a
beginner, I have
little skill, but well, I can get my money's worth with the response of
people. One house construction guy was leaving my house here and I had it
planned so
that when he
left he would probably be looking over my way. My wife had needed an
estimate on the upstairs. He came bounding out of the dome and I was out and
to his left,
and holding a low Ab with the usual drones. I had
the 10 kids all around me and he just about tripped as he looked my way. His
horrified look was pretty
fun to see. There have been other similar moments. That could be the "What
the..." response.
In an opposite way, people can have an equally strange non-reaction. That is
just as dramatic and interesting. For example, my dad is a very experienced
musician, once a little famous as a jazz trombonist, and when I suddenly
told him I
bought this unusual instrument
and sent him a very clear, big photo, he strangely had no reaction
whatsoever. Not one word.
Similarly, a couple of times people have come to pick up their children...
and I am standing out in the sun playing the instrument, I continue to play,
they walk by me, then I stop to say good bye as they walk past again and
they say "bye, see ya" and don't so much as even look up at it. I crack up.
I think, so I could be standing there holding a giant squid in my arms and
they would even notice?
There is one other kind of response I have had two times. When I had had the
instrument for only one week, two people seemed to laugh and want me to
perform instantly in front of a large group--like do a feature solo work
with a microphone. I'm thinking like umm yeah right. I mean, I'm laughing,
too. But they said something like, "hey, do a dance number, we can feature
you, come
on." I can introduce you.
I think with that type of reaction, they took it to be more of a joke, like
it plays itself and is a comic thing.
Oh, one other type of response, pretty much in the range of the above just
mentioned; the person feeling the need to wise crack.
Then if I don't laugh hard enough, they must think of another one liner.
Things like, "You'll be getting a lot of calls to play that." (Then
BaHahaha.) Or, "did you actually pay over a hundred dollars for that thing?"
Or, "Now you just a monkey, right? Bahahahah."
I am pretty well adjusted about all that, though.
I feel that the human mind has its own way of processing information and
people just have no preparation for the hurdy gurdy in these moments. I
could hand out write ups or wear a name tag with a brief description. It is
just not having any context. An old tv show used to be totally based on the
idea of normal human behaviors acted out in totally wrong moments. It was
fascinating actually and very funny it terms of how dumb people can seem
without any context. I am thinking of the show Candid Camera. May be the
person viewing the hurdy gurdy can almost want to feel just a tiny, tiny bit
offended at being asked somehow to respond to something that resembles no
experience that hey have ever had in their entire life so far.
A medical term in caring for people would be prompting. So I could prompt
them and give an introduction first, basically giving them a feeling for how
they should react.
The other social commentary would be something in the realm of how Americans
are not educated enough in some ways. I'll say a little cynically, clueless.
I am thinking of European culture, or geography, and music beyond
pop/commercial/commodity-based music, or of mid-evil and renaissance
history. The commercial culture here is that "newer is better"--so what's
this about a ... hurdy gurdy?
But, back to this interesting and elegant instrument in all its seriousness.
As far a maintenance, I can seek out Matthew, though I tell myself to not be
too much of a nuisance, may be once a month at the most.
As for a teacher, I wish I could juts casually link up with any one person
in that way. Sometimes I wondered if any jazz player, or any brass player
has ever taken up playing this instrument. May be I should mention that I
have not yet tried improvising jazz on the hurdy gurdy. I do have one swing
song that works great, no problems at all. (Grandfather's Clock.)
I guess I have written enough. I am not always too great at typing and
expressing ideas. Often I reread my letters a week later feel embarrassed at
my lack of skills at writing.
I will put a few random questions in a separate letter in a moment today.
Best wishes,
jim
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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 10:49:56 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hurdy-Gurdy questions
Can clear shoe polish ever go on an ordinary sort of violin dark brown word
finish?
I guess the builder did mention that, but it seemed so low tech. I just
don't know.
When doing the regular four stroke: which of the four points is the hardest?
I am finding the east or 3-o clock one to be the most difficult. The full
downward is not so bad, and the third one tend to be not so easy.
I think I am too hyper about it, but I can't seem to slow down the over all
tempo.
I am not even quite sure of my question on that.
If my lute instrument is tilted outward a little, then where is the upper,
12- o clock position?
Is it defined by the slightly outward angle of the sound board.
Or, does its exact position even matter too much, just as long as the four
quarter turns are equally spaced?
Or is the north or upper position more straight towards the sky.
When D Muskett describes blows with respect to the buzz, does the inner hand
actually strike the handle? I am finding that I can just hold the handle(
with the correct grip) and get the "blows" to more come from within the arm,
more emanating from the wrist or arm rather than loosening the hand up from
the handle. So, should the handle hold be full contact with my hand?
Is it to be expected, I can get any kind of sixteenth (semi-quaver) buzz to
be produced much more easily on the downward motion then on coming upward?
Is that to be expected? I am thinking for example of 8th/two 16th sort of
pattern in each half stroke. So I get it coming down, but not coming back
up.
Thanks. :)
Oh and I know to allow for years and years, I will.
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Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 17:09:37 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hurdy-Gurdy questions
zhenya:
> When doing the regular four stroke: which of the four points is the hardest?
if you start to do the c4 too early (before you manage c2 in all cases
you may or may not think about) it will be the first point soon.
> I am finding the east or 3-o clock one to be the most difficult. The full
> downward is not so bad, and the third one tend to be not so easy.
> I think I am too hyper about it, but I can't seem to slow down the over all
> tempo.
> I am not even quite sure of my question on that.
>
> If my lute instrument is tilted outward a little, then where is the upper,
> 12- o clock position?
it is independent from the way the instrument is tilt. 12 o'clock means
allways upright the axle.
> When D Muskett describes blows with respect to the buzz, does the inner hand
> actually strike the handle? I am finding that I can just hold the handle(
> with the correct grip) and get the "blows" to more come from within the arm,
> more emanating from the wrist or arm rather than loosening the hand up from
> the handle. So, should the handle hold be full contact with my hand?
not in the basic traditional technique (maybe try a handle which is a
litte bit smaller). All movement comes from the arm. None from the
wrist.
> Is it to be expected, I can get any kind of sixteenth (semi-quaver) buzz to
> be produced much more easily on the downward motion then on coming upward?
> Is that to be expected? I am thinking for example of 8th/two 16th sort of
> pattern in each half stroke. So I get it coming down, but not coming back
> up.
do not try it yet. Work on a perfect c.2 (only down and up) in whatever
rhythmical circumstances.
When you feel this is perfect and you get bored, consult a teacher, even
if this means to drive far out.
regards
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 08:50:48 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hurdy-Gurdy amplification
Pieter -
Are you talking about built-in amplification, or something added to the
instrument later?
Alden
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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 09:42:28 -1000
From: Don Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] chit chat
That was an interesting ramble.
As for my experience- the first public performance in Hawaii of my
Gotschy Lute-back happened a week ago. It was the day after my birthday,
and after my regular nightly gig (playing gypsy violin at the Four
Seasons) I was feeling hungry and feisty. So I tuned up my hurdy gurdy,
warmed up a little bit, and headed down to the local late-night sushi
bar for Karaoke Night. Just walking in with this strange-looking hard
case caused a stir. The place was packed for Saturday night.- mostly
locals, but also a mix of tourists and hotel and restaurant workers. As
I sat down to order my sushi, the MC walked out into the big crowd.
Well- here's my chance. I approach him and ask if I can play an
unaccompanied instrumental number. He says "what instrument" and I say
hurdy gurdy, showing him the lute-back. He exclaims in wonder, and five
minutes later (to my amazement- there's a long line of people waiting to
sing) he calls me to the stage. I sit down, set up the two vocal mics in
front of the hg, and start cranking on a gypsy tune I'd composed. The
place was suddenly silent. I play and play showing off the coups de
quatre that Theo taught me, and keeping up a steady "beladi" beat after
a slow legato intro. When I finish the tune, the whole place goes wild,
cheering and stomping and standing up, yelling for encores (Hana Ho! in
Hawaiian). Remembering my early music instruction (all ways leave them
wanting more) I bow and step off the stage, going back to my table where
fresh sushi is waiting for me. A young man asks me for my card, saying
he's from California and produces Trance music, for which he is suddenly
convinced that hurdy gurdy is shining star.
All righty then. I guess Hawaii will one day be known as hurdy gurdy
heaven.
Aloha-
Don
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Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 20:18:15 EDT
From: Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] chit chat
Ohmigod- the best part of playing a gurdy and in a karoake bar, of all
places!!!
Congratulations...
Felicia.
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Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 00:04:50 -0500
From: Theo Bick <tbick _at_ austin.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] chit chat
Hello Don,
Yes, it is magic isn't it. So we will have to finally have the Maui HG
workshop and festival so that we can all visit HG heaven and play at the
Karaoke bar and swim at the clothing optional beach. But I think I'll come
even without the workshop. I am looking forward to playing a duet with you.
Aloha,
Theo
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Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 14:26:44 +0100
From: Matthew Williams <mattwill75 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] chit chat
Hi,
Love reading your ramblings, Jim. I thought you'd like to hear from an
appreciative subscriber here in rural Eastern England. Just now it's
one of those rare times when we otherwise quiet and reserved Brits are
getting together in the open air, this time to share together in the
Queen's 50 year jubilee celebrations and/or to watch soccer on big
screens (lots of flags either way). Two days public holiday can't be
bad!
Yesterday I answered a last-minute appeal for buskers to support an
open-air farmer's market event in one of the small towns here (Aylsham,
Norfolk), with money raised going to the organising committee. Maybe as
a beginner, it was a bit presumptious of me to offer, but no-one else
came forward. After overcoming the initial nerves, it felt pretty good
sitting there in the sun just practising pieces, while those people who
did noticie the music actually seemed to appreciate it (more than they do
now in my home!). Well, the money just rolled in.
Of course the grown-ups regularly kept coming up in the middle of pieces
to ask what the instrument was. But the best bit was seeing the younger
people, who have less inhibitions than the adults, first loitering by to
watch, then starting to tap their feet, then stepping from side to side
at last dancing around (reminded me a bit of that scene in the dole queue
in the film ‘The Full Monty' where the static people start twitching to
the music).
Anyway, I think that's a more natural response to dance music than the
dreaded silent audience, especially out there in the market place. Isn't
that what the gurdy was invented for?
Matthew (another one)
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Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 17:45:33 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hurdy-Gurdy questions
Hello Jim,
Simon Wascher:
> if you start to do the c4 too early (before you manage c2 in all cases
> you may or may not think about) it will be the first point soon.
I didnt want to discourage you from moving on to more complex things, so
here is a little test:
to find out how your c.2 is doing I can recomend the following three
exercises:
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/gettune?U=http://members.chello.at/
simon.wascher/tradarchiv/zwiefach/uebung_giggerl.abc&F=GIF&X=1
first learn to play the little melody, preferably by heart. It is a
traditional dance tune from Bavaria, also popular in Austria. The beat
is changing between 4/4 and 3/4, 1/4 note = 1/4 note (the tempo of all
quarter-notes is equal - the bars are of different lenght). one of the
advantages of this melody is that if g' is the open string, each finger
just has to play a certain key and the hand does not need to move. The
trompette is tuned to d'.
the three rhythm only lines are meant for the right hand and are to be
played alternatively :-) together with the melody. Throughout the
exercise one turn of the wheel equals 2/4 ( one 1/2 note). The
noteheads represent coups, the pauses mean just to turn the wheel)
the first (on the beat) is simply following the beat of the tune, the
second (just pos.1) is just c.1 (down), and also should be played
upwards (starting with the handle from c.2 pos.2 'up'), the third patern
equals a basic three-time (3/4) rhythm with a coup on beats 1 and 3
(up) (c.2) using one and a half turns of the wheel for one rhythmic
group (the whole pattern is: coup down - no coup up - coup down - coup
up -no coup down - coup up ) . Maybe the whole thing is easier if you do
not do it sight-reading but get the idea and practise whitout a printout
:-)
Being able to perform these rhythmical possibilities of c.2 will soon
enable you to combine them freely with different melodies and create
quite complex combinations of melodies and rhythms in c.2 which can be
very satisfying musically - sometimes more satisfying than using c.4.
I am sure you will manage to play this soon,
regards
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2002 20:46:05 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hurdy-Gurdy questions
Hi Simon.
Also hi to British Matthew.
This is just to say that I have your web page and it looks great. I can work
on it late tomorrow.
Reading it seems easy. Doing the right hand and memorizing a little more to
enjoy and work at.
You part of the letter copied below will take a little more concentration to
do for me.
One more detail, I couldn't hear any sound even though my computer did come
up with a play window.
That could be me. So, that's ok.
Also, I am clear on 1/4 = 1/4. Steady time. Variable meter in four or three.
Got it. :)
Quarter equals quarter.
Thanks for giving me something to work at. Wow.
I approach practicing in the form of segments.
One part I do is to record myself on cassette and listen back. Usually I am
rushing and the buzz is not at all clear. Another segment I try is juts
doing anything I feel like all alone to get a feel for fast things, high
notes (those tiny keys), and trills and fast coups; that's like my dumb,
nutty time. I can think of Robert Mandel with really fast things. But I'm a
joke at that point. Then I try my usual run of songs--about five. Then I do
some reading, including some bass clef just up an octave two. Finally and
most dreaded, scales and more far-off keys.
I also play for all the kids here and they start to dance a little, often
just spinning. That seems so cute to me.
Well enough of all that. I will try this suggested work.
By the way, I do not stare down, so reading works fine.
Since trombonist are not allowed to begin by staring at their slide, I feel
that I must stare ahead.
It works ok. Muscle memory.
And...thanks!
jim
excerpt<<the first (on the beat) is simply following the beat of the tune,
the
second (just pos.1) is just c.1 (down), and also should be played
upwards (starting with the handle from c.2 pos.2 'up'), the third pattern
equals a basic three-time (3/4) rhythm with a coup on beats 1 and 3
(up) (c.2) using one and a half turns of the wheel for one rhythmic
group (the whole pattern is: coup down - no coup up - coup down - coup
up -no coup down - coup up ) . Maybe the whole thing is easier if you do
not do it sight-reading but get the idea and practice without a printout
:-)>>
reference:
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/gettune?U=http://members.chello.at/simon
.wascher/tradarchiv/zwiefach/uebung_giggerl.abc&F=GIF&X=1
All that is one link address.
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Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 08:26:08 +0200
From: Lauwers.P <Lauwers.P _at_ itc.mil.be>
Subject: RE: [HG] Hurdy-Gurdy amplification
Alden,
Sorry, wrote my initial mail in a hurry. I was talking about the two
systems: a built-in one and something to add on an existing instrument.
Pieter
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Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:08:43 +0200
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hurdy-Gurdy amplification
Hi Pieter,
the easiest way to amplifi a gurdy is with tw piezo pick-up. I us K&k
hotspots.
one has to be glued at the side of the melody bridge, just about 2-3 mm
above the soundboard, the second has to be placed at the soundboard unter
the tailpiece (find the best place with changing the place around 2 inches
left and right.
Use a preamp like the Fishman. It is a small preamp in the endpin jack. This
is a cheap and good sounding solution as long as you don't make experimental
electic hurdy gurdy music
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Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 13:11:19 +0200
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] chit chat
Hi Don
G R E A T ! ! !
Let's try the Maui-workshop once again!!!
Maybe it becomes a second Saint Chartier once;-)
Aloha
Helmut
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Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2002 14:52:24 +0200
From: Lauwers.P <Lauwers.P _at_ itc.mil.be>
Subject: RE: [HG] Hurdy-Gurdy amplification
Helmut,
I was already thinking in that direction (play acoustic guitar since years)
but I needed reassuring.
Thanks you for the info, now let's get loud!
Pieter
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:42:13 +0100
From: hurdy.gurdy <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: [HG] Amta tunes
The tunes from Dominique Forges ( Issue 4, 1999 ) are now on my site.
I have used Noteworthy composer format which can be read,transposed etc
using the free download from http://noteworthycomposer.com
Neil
hurdygurdy _at_ onetel.net.uk
www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 13:50:10 +0100
From: hurdy.gurdy <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: [HG] Amta tunes
Further to my last, please let me know of any problems accessing the new
format.
Neil Brook,
hurdygurdy _at_ onetel.net.uk
www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk
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Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 15:16:17 +0200
From: Guido tum Suden <guido _at_ tumsuden.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] Amta tunes
> I have used Noteworthy composer format which...
is a windows program.
Hi Neil,
if you don't use slurs, thrills and the like in the score MIDI files are
just fine because everyone can use them.
Guido
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:57:26 -0400
From: John Roberts <anglo _at_ albany.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Amta tunes
I'm with Guido on this one - posting the tunes is great, and I can
use the midi files, but I can do nothing with the NWC files.
John Roberts.
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:19:12 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] two Gurdy questions
Good morning hurdy-gurdy world,
A cold morning here in Maine, just above Bangor. Some frost over night. May
be 5 centigrade here this morning.
1) Is there just one standard way to attach the strap for standing, or are
there two known ways. I do the one way like Gaston's pictures of going from
the far button at the end and then
under the tail piece and up towards the neck and shoulder.
However, one photo of Valentin showed the high strap from the
near button near the trompette, and then upward.
In that case, the far button near the grande bourdon is going around the
waist.
May be I am just confused by the photo of Valentin.
Reference: Sinfonye, Jan. 1985, pg 33.
2) What is the standard for the beginning point of the first buzz? Is it to
start at the
most upward point towards the sky? I mean my first impulse was to begin
something like a drum beat and
start at about the most bottom point. I could describe using the idea of the
12 o'clock point, or 6 o'clock.
Where does it start? Thank you in advance.
Finally to Simon, I really like your exercise. I am now engaged in trying
to play it. I can clunk through; it sounds sort of medium quality or not too
bad.
It feels like left-brain, right-brain conflict. There is that cross over
where the right hand is controlled at a separate location in the brain than
the left. But, it is a good feeling in so much as the challenge of it. I can
not do it too well, so I can just work on
achieving the independence of the two hands. May be in a couple of weeks, I
may wish for another dose of your musical thought like this-- almost like a
mini lesson, may be--if that is ok. The web page graphics--your music--
shows
perfectly on my computer.
Also, I feel equally quite comfortable transposing it at sight into C, which
allows the trompette to stay on C rather than D. I did it both ways. I
understood what you said about giving some open string moments in the key of
G, and I simply played it both ways.
I may want to write out your top line as a regular music page, hard copy as
a lead sheet using a "Encore." If you wish for a copy at that point just to
see the result, just let me know.
As someone living over here, I am at the disadvantage of never having heard
that melody. I have been to Europe three times, but it was before I ever
thought of European folk music in a serious way like this. Twice as a
tourist to England and once to play some jazz in Krakow (in '94)
Thanks for all your help!
jim
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Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 11:33:52 -0400
From: Beverly Woods <tradmusic _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Amta tunes
Likewise here.
Beverly Woods
> I'm with Guido on this one - posting the tunes is great, and I can
> use the midi files, but I can do nothing with the NWC files.
> John Roberts.
>
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:04:36 +0100
From: hurdy.gurdy <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Amta tunes
OK, we go back to midi and put up with the odd notation faults - the tune is
what matters.
Neil
hurdygurdy _at_ onetel.net.uk
www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:26:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Sherman <dennis_sherman _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Amta tunes
A slightly dissenting view...
If it isn't too much trouble, putting up both would be
great. Then an accurate score is available for those
that want to read it, as well as the sound for those
that want to listen. (or import to a scoring package)
=====
--
Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 10:29:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Sherman <dennis_sherman _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: [HG] left hand vs. right hand
Jim's recent comment on coordinating hands doing
different things got me curious: is there anyone else
on this list that also plays pipe and tabor? That's
another instrument where the two hands are doing very
different things -- one playing 3 hole pipe, one
beating a drum or other percussion instrument.
=====
--
Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 18:57:31 +0100
From: hurdy.gurdy <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Amta tunes
Hi Dennis,
As the initial transcription is done on nwc, it is ready to go so I've put
it in a subfolder with the midi.
Neil
hurdygurdy _at_ onetel.net.uk
www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk
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Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 20:31:40 +0200
From: B&D Renaudin <d140557 _at_ club-internet.fr>
Subject: Re: [HG] Amta tunes
Hi there,
Why not try Abc? Or use Melody/Harmony?
http://www.myriad-online.com/
Wellll, back to lurking!
;-)
Dominique R
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 20:07:26 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] left hand vs. right hand
Yes I do using a three hole pipe (sorry, tin whistle with top three holes
taped up. It really does work!
Really left/right shouldn't be a problem. Piano has different things to do
with both hands as does violin guitar etc etc.
Practice is the key. Once you have learned it the pathways in the brain can
cope with just about anything. As a kid I was totally right handed and
learning the guitar was really hard. And yes, I can now pat my head with one
hand and rub my stomach with the other at the same time:-)
We do a lot of things with different hands at the same time but are not
aware of it. Just picking up a glass with one hand while getting some
peanuts out of a bowl with the other is left/right. Work on it and it will
come and stop thinking about it - that's what is causing the problem.
Believe you can do it and you can.
Come to think of it - any one-man bands on the list?
Colin Hill
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Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 21:36:38 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Amta tunes
Hello,
B&D Renaudin:
>
> Hi there,
>
> Why not try Abc? Or use Melody/Harmony?
> http://www.myriad-online.com/
my saying. Speaking about traditional music in traditional notation abc
is fairly good.
Having written a tune in abc format offers it to a sample of programms
on different platforms from unix via microsaft to apple. additionally
it is possible to create midi, gif, ps, pdf, png, eps output via a quite
simple hyperlink to a script running at the MIT. For example the
exercises I sent to the list lately are created online by this
cgi-scripts. Its midi output can be used to import files into all those
notation programs that do not support abc.
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 22:10:09 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] two Gurdy questions
Es schrieb zhenya:
> 1) Is there just one standard way to attach the strap for standing, or are
> there two known ways. I do the one way like Gaston's pictures of going from
> the far button at the end and then under the tail piece and up towards the
> neck and shoulder.
> However, one photo of Valentin showed the high strap from the
> near button near the trompette, and then upward.
> In that case, the far button near the grande bourdon is going around the
> waist.
3) with flatback instruments one also can use a Y strap with no sholder
strap at all.
I think method 1) depends on the round back of the luthback, and the
other methods depend on a flatback.
> 2) What is the standard for the beginning point of the first buzz? Is it to
> start at the
> most upward point towards the sky? I mean my first impulse was to begin
> something like a drum beat and
> start at about the most bottom point. I could describe using the idea of the
> 12 o'clock point, or 6 o'clock.
> Where does it start? Thank you in advance.
if we agree on 'vertically above the axle' ('most upward point towards
the sky') as 12h o'clock the pos.1 'the beginning point of the first
buzz' is at about 1 o'clock (13h) or maybe 1h30. See:
http://freespace.virgin.net/hurdy.gurdy/trompett.html
> Finally to Simon, I really like your exercise. I am now engaged in trying
> to play it. I can clunk through;
I wish you would practice your c.2 not just on this exercise which I
sent you as a *test*.
Make up your mind on your own simple exercises for the c.2 including 1,
2, 3 or 4 c.1 or 2 to 9 c.2 or numbers of turns without coup and
different numbers of notes in the left hand in the duration of quarter-
half- full double turns of the wheel. Play all melodies you know and
keep steady coups with the right hand as described in my exercises.
> I may want to write out your top line as a regular music page, hard copy as
> a lead sheet using a "Encore."
there is much more music at my site:
http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/homepage_abc.htm
try:
http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/tradarchiv/zwiefach.htm
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 14:10:0 -0700
From: Joanne Andrus <joaand _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [HG] left hand vs. right hand
I know of at least a couple of us who also play pipe & tabor.
Joanne
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Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 14:41:51 -0700
From: Pat Nelson <pjs3ds _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] left hand vs. right hand
My drum teacher calls this "cup and sword". One rhythm has to be in "the
cup" recessive part of your brain, and the other is on "the sword" the
thinking part of your brain. An example of this is playing the Bata drum
which has a head on each side. Each hand plays a different rhythm, and they
have to fit together exactly. ( sometimes one side plays in 6 while the
other plays in 8) Some of my attempts have actually made me dizzy trying to
keep both sides going. It's a bit different than playing guitar, even
though both hands have different functions. It's disorienting splitting the
brain in two.
Pat Nelson
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 23:02:14 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] left hand vs. right hand
Ah, a brain is needed. That's probably where I win :-)
I have started looking at the instruments I play - the drum angle seems
similar to the anglo concertina - one hand playing a bass rhythm and the
other playing melody - and both at right angles to each other - made me
dizzy as well when I started that!
I still think that once the brain makes the adjustment, it is much easier to
continue it to other instruments so practice practice practice.
Wish I had a HG - still saving hard but still a long way to go but one
day...............
Really good thread this - makes you think.
Colin Hill
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:03:41 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] left hand vs. right hand
Then there is Ives' piece (the name escapes me) in which the
conductor has to essentially lead two orchestras playing different
marching tunes in different time signatures at different tempos and
have them end up together. Few conductors can do it. It is simply too
difficult. At least in the drum example here you could expect the
beats to occur in some ratio that brings at least a regular selection
of the beats together. In the Ives example you are denied even this.
(For those not familiar with Ives, this work is about a parade in
which two different marching bands come down a street and the
listener is caught in between them. He also wrote "The Gong on the
Hook and Ladder, or Fireman's Parade Down Main Street" in which a
bell is rung in accelerating and decelerating rhythms again a more or
less steady marching tune, evocative of an old horse-drawn fire
engine in a parade which has a bell that rings according to how fast
the engine goes, so it slows down on up-hill stretches and speeds up
on the down. Quite an interesting experience to listen to this piece.)
If it gets more confusing than this I think we mere mortals are lost...
-Arle
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Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 18:18:51 -0400
From: Beverly Woods <tradmusic _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Amta tunes/dissenting view
Dennis,
Just to clarify:
If you put up a score with a Windows-only program, it wouldn't be "for
those who want to read it;" it would be "for those who want to read it who
are using Windows."
Many of us are not using Windows. There being many freeware notation
programs that can be used by both Windows and Mac (Finale Notepad, abc,
etc.) scores written in those would be accessible to more of us.
Beverly
--
Beverly Woods
Low End Mac column: http://www.lowendmac.net/woods/index.html
music website:
http://www.sethausten.com/
email: tradmusic _at_ earthlink.net
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:13:19 -0700
From: Katie Roe <Katie.Roe _at_ wizards.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] left hand vs. right hand
I play pipe and tabor as well. Interestingly, this last Saturday I tried
to play pipe and tamborine. It was much harder. I've also tried
pipe/tabor/ankle bells. What a disaster! Two at a time is one thing, but
three is even harder. I marvel at people who can play one line and sing
another, like Anna Peekstok with Telynor. I am amazed every time I watch
her perform.
Katie
My soul can find no staircase to heaven unless
it be through Earth's loveliness.
-Michelangelo
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:28:31 EDT
From: Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] left hand vs. right hand
Actually... sorry to be troublesome here, but aren't we doing THREE things?
Left hand on the keys (theoretically playing a tune), right hand both turning
and doing the coups.
Still working on it...
Felicia.
PS And I've seen Anna P. not only playing an instrument but singing AS WELL
AS playing foot bells. I'm sorry, my mind just quits working altogether when
I watch that! And of course she's doing it all incredibly well.
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 16:40:25 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] two Gurdy questions
Jim,
> 2) What is the standard for the beginning point of the first buzz? Is it to
> start at the
> most upward point towards the sky? I mean my first impulse was to begin
> something like a drum beat and
> start at about the most bottom point. I could describe using the idea of the
> 12 o'clock point, or 6 o'clock.
> Where does it start? Thank you in advance.
Most people play the coup de un (c.1) at the top, but there are no HG
police to enforce this rule. It is the downbeat, so it makes
sense to me to go down on that beat.
As for the exact place for the c.1, that's open to a lot of
interpretation. I've seen and heard all sorts of theories: that it has to
be at 12 o'clock relative to the instrument body, etc, etc. Sometimes
this works fine, and sometimes it's really difficult for some people who
then get really frustrated because they're "not doing it right", even
though it works for them.
When he was here in Seattle for his workshop at Easter, Maxou brought a
great little computer program that he had written up. It showed that the
place where the c.1 ideally goes is going to be different for each player
and each instrument, so there's no hard and fast rule. Ergonomically
there's an ideal place for the player to make the "down" stroke of the
c.1. Where this place is in relation to the instrument is affected by the
relationship between the length of the player's forearm, the length of the
upper arm, the length of the torso and/or how high the player holds the
instrument, whether the player is standing or sitting, and how much the
instrument is tilted. Also, the adjustment of the dog will have an
effect: if it sounds very easily, you can make the coup a little earlier,
because less effort is needed.
For me, the message was: do the c.1 wherever it feels best, and the rest
will follow from there.
Alden
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Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 19:54:02 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Amta tunes
Merci a lot.
It is nice of AMTA to permit Neil to post these tunes for all of us
reading impaired players. And it great that Neil takes the time to
convert the music accurately to Midi files for us.
Merci Mucho
r.t.
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 06:42:39 +0100
From: Ruth Bramley <ruthbramley _at_ btinternet.com>
Subject: [HG] Workshop weekend in Cambridgeshire
I know that I've plugged this before, but felt that it was time for a
reminder before we all make our summer holiday plans....
On the weekend of 31st Aug/1st Sept I am organising a set of workshops:
GC Hurdy Gurdy - Mike Gilpin
DG Hurdy Gurdy - Chris Allen
G Bagpipes - Ferris Jay
G and C modal tuning for guitar - Tony House
The HG and Pipes workshops will be aimed at the 'beginner' end of abilities,
although the actual definition of 'beginner' will depend very much on who
turns up, so don't be put off by that.
The workshops will be held in the village centre in my home village of
Haddenham, which is near Ely, about 15 miles North of Cambridge. I have
booked the centre all day on both days, and anticipate the workshops running
from, say, 10am-5pm...but that depends on how people feel. I will provide
tea/coffee/biscuits. We have good choice of food outlets in the village -
either snacks/fish and chips/Chinese or the very excellent local pub which
is almost opposite the centre.
I can supply a list of B&Bs in the area, plus a campsite, or alternatively,
we are happy for up to 4 smallish tents to be pitched in our garden (3 mins
walk from the centre)...first come first served! - I already have 1 tent
booked in!
Cost of the weekend will be £25. Please let me know if you are interested or
would like further details. There is some information on
www.ely.org.uk/folk.htm
Looking forward to being deluged with enquiries/bookings.....
Ruthie
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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 09:50:56 +0200
From: Guido tum Suden <guido _at_ tumsuden.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] Amta tunes
> additionally
> it is possible to create midi, gif, ps, pdf
If the program writes the score with a font a PDF file would be next to
nothing in size and everybody can read and print it.
So MIDI should be best for listening and PDF for printing.
Guido
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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 09:51:59 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] two Gurdy questions
Hello,
Alden Hackmann:
> As for the exact place for the c.1, that's open to a lot of
> interpretation. (...)
> For me, the message was: do the c.1 wherever it feels best, and the rest
> will follow from there.
No, one can feel good for a while and later on struggle extraordinarily
with a little bit more complex coups or with certain rhythms.
When I talked to Maxou about this matter, he described to me this
dependence of the pos.1 from the proportions of the player especially
with children he found, in which I agree, but anyway we share the
principles of this position: It is on that point where the falling
movement of the hand is no longer disturbed (blocked)by the axle,
usually this is at about + 1 o'clock but in certain cases of special
body geometry as with children (or other special cases) it may be
earlier, since the direction of the falling hand is influenced by the
ellbow and the sholder joints.
So pos. 1 is very well defined, but in terms of a free falling movement
of the hand not in terms of a geometric point. Under usual circumstances
with adults it is *not* 12 o'clock but noticable later.
pos.1
movement: falling
part of the hand in contact with the knob: inner side of the thumb
direction: down
Why do I insist on this topic ? since do a lot of teaching I have to
work with students on all this 'feel free and happy' techniques, on the
complains of people who cannot do a regular c.4, cannot play a groovy
schottische or bourree, and struggle with 6/8 in c.4 and with c.3.
regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 10:31:06 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: nearly OT: storeing and creating music files was Re: [HG] Amta
tunes
Hallo,
Guido tum Suden:
Simon Wascher:
> > additionally
> > it is possible to create midi, gif, ps, pdf
Guido tum Suden:
> If the program writes the score with a font a PDF file would be next to
> nothing in size and everybody can read and print it.
to clearify what I am talking about: A hyperlink that creates any of
these formats instantainious, on demand (this also means: less than next
to nothing in size, only one URL per format). You can find the full
information at http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/ABCconversion.html
:
this is such a hyperlink that creates a GIF file:
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/gettune?U=http://members.chello.at/
simon.wascher/tradarchiv/zwiefach/uebung_giggerl.abc&F=GIF&X=1
the first part:
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/gettune?
is the adress of the cgi script at the MIT.
the next parts are a list of parameters that list the URL and say what
you want done with it. These parameters are separated by '&' characters.
the URL to read from:
U=http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/tradarchiv/zwiefach/uebung_giggerl.abc
the desired output format (in this case GIF, replace with another suffix
name and you get another output):
F=GIF
the index number of the abc tune in the file (here '1'):
X:1
There is an example of another hyperlink, it creates a midi file from
the file giggerl.abc at my site (if your computer has a midi-player
included it should ask you if you want to have it played it when you
click on this link):
http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/gettune?U=http://members.chello.at/
simon.wascher/tradarchiv/zwiefach/giggerl.abc&F=MIDI&X=1
regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 05:58:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Sherman <dennis_sherman _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] left hand vs. right hand
--- Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net> wrote:
> [...]
> learning the guitar was really hard. And yes, I can
> now pat my head with one
> hand and rub my stomach with the other at the same
> time:-)
I teach pipe and tabor workshops, and I use the
patting and rubbing thing as the "aptitude test" at
the beginning of class. :-) It helps set expectations
that there's going to be some practice time needed to
coordinate activities.
=====
--
Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 06:06:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Sherman <dennis_sherman _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] left hand vs. right hand
--- Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net> wrote:
>[...]
> I still think that once the brain makes the
> adjustment, it is much easier to
> continue it to other instruments so practice
> practice practice.
That's actually getting at what I was wondering,
whether other people see a transference from one
instrument to another. Most of the instruments I play
use both hands, but doing similar activities, even if
in different rhythms. (I'm mostly a wind and
percussion player, not strings.) Hurdy-gurdy and pipe
and tabor have very different motions involved. I
found when starting hurdy-gurdy that thinking about
what I'd learned about separating (and then rejoining)
the different motions for pipe and tabor helped make
sense out of it all.
=====
--
Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:47:42 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] left hand vs. right hand
A dreary, rainy June day in Maine...
Sometimes I try to talk with some one, to not look at the instrument, and
play.
It produces funny results. I musically cash and burn so to speak--to use
that phrase.
Then I laugh at my childlike attempts to play such a cool instrument.
I figure that it's really good practice, though.
jim
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Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 23:48:50 EDT
From: Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Workshop weekend in Cambridgeshire
Wish I could be there, especially since Mike Gilpin will be there. One of
the world's sweetiepies and a great player as well. Tell him I said hi, if
you get the chance...
Felicia.
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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 10:52:02 +0100
From: hurdy.gurdy <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Amta tunes
There is no need to print the tunes, Amta will post them to you.
Neil
hurdygurdy _at_ onetel.net.uk
www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk
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Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 17:36:29 +0200
From: Wenceslao Martínez Calonge <wencesmc _at_ interacesso.pt>
Subject: Re: [HG] left hand vs. right hand
Ciao:
>>is there anyone else
> on this list that also plays pipe and tabor?
Yes, as far as I know, Mr. Pello García is a fine player.
And perhaps you want to see some Iberian "pipe and tabor" stuff
at Juanma's page (Spanish):
http://www.tamborileros.com
or nice Basque melodies at Félix Vigor's "Txistuaz" (Basque, Spanish,
English):
http://txistuaz.hypermart.net
And what about Juanjo's essay on chifla maragata (Spanish):
http://audio.ya.com/sanjoweb/
I have some Mirandese melodies for stick dances too (almost Catalonian):
http://www.interacesso.pt/web/wencesmc/miranda1.html#Basto
Greetings from Coimbra (Portugal),
Wenceslao Martínez Calonge
wencesmc _at_ interacesso.pt
http://www.interacesso.pt/~wencesmc
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Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 16:18:09 -0700
From: Anna Peekstok <apeekstok _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] left hand vs. right hand
I've played a 3 hole pipe with a tamborine -- and also along with my gurdy,
using the right hand to play drones and rhythm while the left handles the
pipe. Can't say I've perfected the technique but it is, um, interesting!
+ + + + + + +
Anna Peekstok
Seattle, WA
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Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2002 11:39:00 +0200
From: Wenceslao Martínez Calonge <wencesmc _at_ interacesso.pt>
Subject: [HG] pipe and gurdy
Hallo:
Luthier and musician Cesc Sans does the same playing flabiol (five-hole,
single-hand pipe) with his left hand and hurdy-gurdy with his right hand.
You can hear him on the "Fica-li, noia" disc of his ancient band "Clau de
lluna" (1994).
Greetings from Coimbra,
Wenceslao Martínez Calonge
wencesmc _at_ interacesso.pt
http://www.interacesso.pt/web/wencesmc
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Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 12:25:19 -0700
From: Deborah L. White <gaidheal _at_ distantoaks.com>
Subject: [HG] Cotton question
Hello everyone,
I recently acquired my first hurdy gurdy, and I also bought Doreen Muskett's
method book (which was recommended to me by a good player). I followed her
instructions on putting cotton on the chanterelles, but I found that there
was an occasional squeaky, whistly sound coming from one of the
chanterelles. Any tips on getting around this? I spent quite a while
tweaking it -- and ended up putting a little piece of paper on the bridge,
under the string. It's working now, but any shortcuts or tips would be most
helpful. I'm finding cotton to be the biggest challenge so far!
Thanks.
Oh, if you'd like to see a picture of my instrument, please visit my band's
Web site, as follows: http://www.distantoaks.com/hurdygurdy
There are pictures of it being made and of the finished product.
Deborah
----------------
Distant Oaks
Celtic & Early Music
http://www.distantoaks.com
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Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 20:52:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] pipe and gurdy
I flirted (fluted) briefly with the tabor pipe. It wasn't too hard to
play with the bones as long as it was Single Jigs, but I never got
beyond "coup de une" when trying to accompany myself with strumming the
dulcimer. I had a little better luck bowing the dulcimer, but not much.
I thought of making an extender for the pipe that would accomodate a
medicine bottle, so I could play accompaniment on the Dobro, but lost
interest in the project at some point. (I'm not sure where to insert
the "<g>" ).
Roy T.
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 21:37:14 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Cotton question...
Me: completely retarded on things.
:)
I'm just starting.
I did get one single, raw cotton bloom--like the plant with the stem and
all.
It was a gift from Maine hurdy gurdy player Louis Sinclair.
Just arrived.
But what pretty photos.
reference:
http://distantoaks.com/hurdygurdy/finished.html
Best wishes!
<< It's working now, but any shortcuts or tips would be most
helpful. I'm finding cotton to be the biggest challenge so far!>>
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Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 23:10:04 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] for sale on Ebay Hurdy Gurdy, Pajot Jeune a Jenzat,
late 1800s
Well once in a while you see a real nice HG for sale on Ebay
here is a Pajot Jeune a Jenzat, late 1800s
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=883031783
The photos look very nice.
r.t.
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 08:37:50 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] for sale on Ebay Hurdy Gurdy, Pajot Jeune a Jenzat,
late 1800s
... I always wondered, when players do get a special chance to see and
measure a museum piece,
do they also get to spin the wheel just gently...
Of course this one looks so perfectly new like.
It has been on e bay a few times.
I have a hunch that the target price is in the range of 4,000 dollars, or
over.
I printed out one photo of it and it is on my music room wall where students
can see it, as a classic example of
a hurdy gurdy.
best wishes...
jim
reference:
Pajot Jeune a Jenzat, late 1800s
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=883031783
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:13:53 -0400
From: dobowen <dobowen _at_ msn.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] for sale on Ebay Hurdy Gurdy, Pajot Jeune a Jenzat,
late 1800s
From the eBay listing you can go directly to the seller's web site, where
they have it listed for direct purchase from the seller at
$4500.............
David Bowen
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:44:40 +0100
From: hurdy.gurdy <hurdy.gurdy _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] for sale on Ebay Hurdy Gurdy, Pajot Jeune a Jenzat,
late 1800s
I would be asking myself why it looks so new and has changed owners
regularly. Maybe it has structural problems
which have prevented it being used.
Neil Brook,
hurdygurdy _at_ onetel.net.uk
www.hurdy-gurdy.org.uk
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 20:29:18 +0100
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] for sale on Ebay Hurdy Gurdy, Pajot Jeune a Jenzat,
late 1800s
For them furriners not in the know, could someone let us know what Ebay
is?
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 12:30:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Sherman <dennis_sherman _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] for sale on Ebay Hurdy Gurdy, Pajot Jeune a Jenzat,
late 1800s
It's the world's largest online auction site.
http://www.ebay.com
There are also about 20 localized or language specific
versions -- you've got one at http://www.ebay.co.uk
One warning: buying things on Ebay can get to be
addictive!
=====
--
Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 12:43:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] for sale on Ebay Hurdy Gurdy, Pajot Jeune a Jenzat,
late 1800s
Neil said
> I would be asking myself why it looks so new and has changed owners
> regularly. Maybe it has structural problems
> which have prevented it being used.
This instrument has come up on eBay several times before, always from the
same seller.
I'd be more concerned that the seller is marketing it as a playable
instrument, but they don't know the names of the parts or (in at least one
case) the woods used. My guess is that they've shined it up, but they
don't really know what they've got.
Alden
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:17:26 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] for sale on Ebay Hurdy Gurdy, Pajot Jeune a Jenzat,
late 1800s
A word of warning for those not used to Ebay - you buy as seen (if there is
a picture!). There are no guarantees that things will work and musical
instruments in particular may have been sadly neglected, stuck back with
chewing gum, been painted or varnished etc etc or just plain broken and
ruined forever! - remember the seller wants to sell them. Treat them all
like a used car (would you buy that unseen) and check out the feedback for
the seller. (sorry for all those that know all this but there are some
horror stories).......that being said, the games and videos I have bought
have all been top quality and as described. Think long and hard before
buying something as delicate as a gurdy sight unseen unless you are
confident you can rebuild it if required unless you know the seller.
Colin Hill
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 15:52:51 -0700
From: John Woosley <johnwoosley _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] for sale on Ebay Hurdy Gurdy, Pajot Jeune a Jenzat,
late 1800s
It's true - ebay can be a great resource for some things, but a lot of items
are just not meant to be purchased without personal inspection.
I use ebay a lot, it's great for locating hard-to-find records, cds, and
books, it's easy to search, and buyers and sellers are somewhat protected by
the site. You can find that odd hurdy gurdy disc for cheap, maybe; or if
it's impossibly rare, just be glad to find it at all, and pay the price!
I also suppliment my income by selling on ebay, and I've found that most
users are reputable and trustworthy. However, one doesn't have to be
un-trustworthy in order to sell unsavory goods - just naive... and I notice
the Pajot seller states firmly in description: as is, no return. So
potential buyers should be very wary.
Thanks
John (djjohnnie on ebay...)
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Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 18:58:09 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] for sale on Ebay .
Muse. Well, :) What's a furriner?
< For them furriners ... >
Anyhowz, E bay is where I bought mine in early April.
I feel like I had some luck and did well.
Actually my wife bid to give it to me with money that we inherited two weeks
before that.
I told her that I loved it; that's when I first saw it up for the auction. I
went on just instinct.
To think of what could go wrong with buying a hurdy gurdy sight unseen.
What if it had a bad wheel and axel? I had talked (or written) with Alden a
little and an axel and wheel can be $400.
That is not including things like if the inside were to be damaged, or the
keys or pegs damaged...
And the morning my wife bid for mine, someone aggressively bid high against
her. It made for some financial drama all in about 9 minutes.
In the end, mine has some little problems, but nothing that causes me any
great heart ache.
Mine has a violin looking scroll on top and that seemed unusual. I like
that.
It is walnut brown and has an old look. I did fall in love with it.
....
The beginning of it all for me was 2 1/2 years prior when I saw the movie
Captains Courageous.
That would be the 1938 version, which is not easy to even find.
Much of the way Spencer Tracey acted out in the movie is not right, but just
the look of the instrument fascinated me.
In the movie, he has a nice one but must not really be playing it. He does
his three verses of the famous waltz. He has the one strap that goes
straight up and around his neck, rather than around back a little. He does
not use the buzz sound at all. He spins the strong beat of the waltz towards
the front, as if he was shown a trompette technique by someone once before
filming. He accents sort of in the forward sort of two-o' clock position for
the first couple of verses. I mean roughly so, not too exact. When he drones
and speaks dialogue, one can, I think, hear the keys knocking a little. I
mean, imagining that all the strings had been turned off. He has his left
thumb way back in the wrong place. His right hand looks more like a player
showed him something. But, his left hand looks more like knowing absolutely
nothing at all. The music is in C--definitely. The melody though is one or
may be two octaves down, sounding a little more reminiscent of a Ukrainian
hurdy-gurdy.Yes, I do realize that the sound trac may not have used a hurdy
gurdy at all. It could have been a viola with that primary sound.
The music is very charming, but includes acoustic guitar and then orchestral
strings... And, it also alternates with a "four" chord, subtly; that would
be in the chorus.
When I try the theme song on my vielle now, it sounds all wrong. It is
because the octave is, well, I guess two octaves too high on my regular
instrument. So, that is way off in tone. I know that Ukrainian liras can
have more of a scratchy sound and are much lower. But that would have been
my own impression now, not any connection that they could have intended. If
I am right about the viola, it would be played on the lower two strings-- C
in the bass staff being the viola's lowest note.
There I go rambling on once more. What do I really know?
...........................
1) "Said cabbage to fish cake that lay on one dish, 'I beautiful cabbage;
you only poor fish.' "
2) I can't get this verse: " One _? makes biscuit and throws them away; next
day no more fish come around boat to play."
3) "Now, there is a place for the one I love best, and I still keep her
picture tattooed on my chest."
4) "There's a school made of fish that live down in the sea, where the
little fish study geo-o-graphy."
5) "And they run with the bait and they lead with the hook..."
6) "With fins and a tail to help you sail, and may be some wings to help you
fly..."
Well, that's in range of what it is.
Not sure of spelling: "Yeah hoo little fish, don't cry, don't cry..."
"Captain Cushman is a sailor, but he should have been a tailor.
Oh what a beautiful man; oh what a beautiful man."
"Don't worry little fish. I go down now to fish with my father."
.....
Over and out.,
jim/ Maine~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~
............................
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 04:30:58 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] for sale on Ebay Hurdy Gurdy, Pajot Jeune a Jenzat,
late 1800s
Just a PS. .
A cold, rainy night in Maine... I thought some else wanted to look into that
instrument.
I am not a prospective buyer on that. I chimed in to the thread here, that's
all.
I know so little. But I worry that an instrument can't be repaired, or just
what if it were to fall and crack the insides. I think the seller was an
store in Florida. Someone may have bought an e bay Colson from them , too.
<However, one doesn't have to be
un-trustworthy in order to sell unsavory goods - just naive...>> Totally
agree.
E bay is the auction on internet. I guess E is electronic. Like E mail.
They stock nothing. It is a virtual warehouse. It just puts people in touch
with other people.
Millions of dollars and they have never seen one piece of inventory.
I do agree that people can get very hurt, so to speak.
With my purchase, it had everything going for it, a current player,
knowledgeable person, musician, willing to write an initial long letter.
But, I was at least able to see what it all could have felt like if the
experience had
turned bad.
He enclosed a bottle of liquid rosin, very strong stuff, with a loose cap. I
don't
know what we would have done if the rosin had spilled out all onto the
instrument's finish and onto the keys... Then he seemed to refuse to write
back, always saying he would catch up sometime with his e mail.
I was perfect in paying him.
I still do not know who was bidding so high against us at the end--someone
with sunglasses. And I tell people that I know why he sold it, but in
reality, he does not write even though I asked some specific questions and
told him how the rosin almost spilled out.
Finally, the builder said that he sold it for less than
he the seller said he paid.
Nothing proves bad intentions, but it all gave me an uneasy feeling.
My instinct was that my wife bidding was going to be ok... but that
was only instinct and I feel that I was lucky.
I love the instrument, and thank God that it worked out.
I also do wonder on this Pajot. I do take risks in my life... but I wouldn't
just buy that
one with no background. One wonders, who owned it. Those are rare. What
happened?
Why is it so perfect looking? If a professional worked on it, who?
Yes, e bay is risky business.
The whole sunglasses thing is not right, and I do know that e bay does not
police it self too much if a crime does occur. Once someone sold my son, my
sweet Andre, binoculars, and then just took the $12. Never send them. Then
he found them for sale again in two weeks, same photo and everything. He was
so cute. He said, "it's them! Those are my binoculars." I wrote to e bay
three times and no one there responded. More like, Oh well. The seller wrote
me back and said I was crazy. But, I wasn't. I had even saved the first
photo. So, that illustrates things. Look out.
They're playing "hard ball."
jim--
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 02:24:29 -1000
From: Don Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: [HG] ebay nightmares
While we're sharing e-bay nightmares... I bought a Mac powerbook on
e-bay for $3250. The woman had a perfect "record", many positive
feedbacks. She never sent the powerbook. She did this to 30 other people
as well, coming out of it with over $90,000. The other people and I
started emailing each other, figured out what was going on. We notified
local authorities, tracked her down- she was Australian, and her name
was Natasha Scriven. Turned out she had a little problem with heroin. We
had the FBI, the Secret Service, Interpol, Australian police, everyone
after her. She ran with the money, toured the world, finally returned to
Australia after almost a year and was arrested. I had sent her a
cashiers check, and was fortunate to be able to stop it and get my money
back (after three months, during which time she could have cashed the
check and I would have been out of luck). Almost all the other victims
had wired money directly into her bank account. They were screwed. The
good thing was, that during those three months I was inspired to write a
tango (the "Natasha" Tango) which I recorded, and am planning to send to
her to listen to in jail.
Ebay claims to protect the buyers, but when you check it out, their
"insurance" is good for $100, if you ever make it through the red tape.
I no longer buy on ebay.
Best of luck-
Don
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 13:29:41 +0100
From: peter.j.hughes _at_ bt.com
Subject: [HG] La Sagesse Nouormande on tour in Jersey - photos.
Hello Everybody,
I thought some of you might enjoy a few pictures of our recent mini-tour.
We were playing as 'La Sagesse Nouormande'[1], specialising in traditional
music from France and the Channel Islands, consisting of Peter Hughes
(hurdy-gurdyand mandola), Geoff Huggins (recorders, saxophone and
rauschpfeife) and Roland Scales (voice, concertina, French and English
bagpipes and hurdy-gurdy). We had the great pleasure to spend a few days
in Jersey last week, doing a little gentle busking when the sun came out and
eating and drinking the rest of the time. Sadly we had to leave before the
main event, the Fete Nouormande 2002, got fully under way, but many thanks
to Geraint Jennings and the Societe Jersiaise for all their help and
support.
Photos of several events in the Fete, including us, may be seen at:
http://www.ifrance.com/jerriais/rouaisouns.html
and info on the Societe Jersiaise:
http://societe-jersiaise.org/pages/first.html
Regards to you all
Peter.
[1] May be loosely translated as 'The Norman Wisdoms'.
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 09:01:53 -0400
From: Timothy S. Hall <hallt _at_ louisville.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebay nightmares
I've had very good luck on Ebay, but caveat emptor. I will mention that,
for high-ticket items, there are a couple of things you can do to protect
yourself. First, use a credit card. Credit cards, at least here in the
USA, have fairly substantial anti-fraud protections, and you can dispute a
charge and incur no interest while the company investigates. However,
individual sellers probably won't take credit cards, and this might not work
through Paypal, etc. Second, use the escrow services Ebay and others
provide. This lets the buyer send money to a disinterested third party, who
then notifies the seller to send the goods. After the buyer receives the
goods and lets the escrow agent know that all is well, the funds are
released. If the item doesn't match the description, then you can refuse to
complete the deal. I've also negotiated inspection and return privileges
with sellers, although there you're still somewhat at the mercy of the
seller to honor it. I have had only had one big-ticket negative
experience - there, the seller was uncommunicative and didn't ship until I
disputed the charge on the credit card, but all worked out in the end.
Best,
Tim Hall
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 15:51:00 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebay nightmares
Looking at the sellers web-site, it seems the instruments are "sold as is"
or "sale final". That would seem to indicate a couple of things to me. One
is that they are being sold as antique instruments and not as musical
instruments and that the seller may not know if they work or not. In other
words there is no guarantee that they work at all or if they can ever be
made to work. It may be ok if you have the skill to rebuild or use the
original to make plans from it. As for me, I'll keep putting my pennies in
the jar until I can afford one from someone who knows about them and can
help out in person if there are problems.
Colin Hill
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:19:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: [HG] A cheerful rebuttal to Zhenya's Capt's C. analysis.
--- zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com> wrote:
>
> Muse. Well, :) What's a furriner?
> < For them furriners ... >
The early explorers and settlers of the eastern were primarily
interested in the fur trade. They would come over "a-furring". They
called themselves "furringers". By the mid colonial period this was
"furrin'ers", and had come to mean "somebody that doesn't plan to hang
around after they've made their fortune". It was John Jacob Astor that
coined the word "furrier" to distinguish between a fur trader as the
original word had taken it's current meaning of "someone from another
country". If you have read anything from the 17th-19th centuries,
you'll have noticed the casual approach to spelling: hence "foreigner".
George is using the phonetic spelling for comic effect.
(And speaking of naive; just in case anyone is, only the last sentance
of the above has any hope of being true.)
...............................................................................................................
I don't expect Spencer Tracy was actually playing the hurdygurdy
anymore than I expect he was actually a lawyer while doing "Adams Rib".
> He has the one strap that goes
> straight up and around his neck, rather than around back
A year or so ago I was trying to develop a leg-pull to explain that the
reason his 'gurdy sounds like a guitar is because of that one strap. I
couldn't make it funny, so nevermind. But seriously folks I think the
right hand technique has more to do with that strap-rig than anything
else.
Given the obvious (to us) faults in technique, it is a tribute the
acting abilites of Mr. Tracy (and Freddie Bartholemew) and Victor
Fleming's direction that we cherish the Night Watch scene rather than
smirk....
On my videotape, I'm not hearing anything particularly HG sounding. I
do hear a classical guitar and small orchestra (quartet?) during most
of the song, swelling into full orchestration later. It might be
cleaner on DVD, as it very well could, the sound quality of the music
is just plain nasty, but consistent with most of the B&W era movies.
I disagree with your lyics in a few places, but admittedly I have not
seen (or heard) the "flick" in awhile and may have "folk-processed" it
to an extent.
I'd like to discuss this further, but we had a wet spring, and as I
look out the window I can actually see the grass growing. Gotta go,
gotta mow.
Later, Roy T. (usually Springtown, TX, USA, but at the moment I'm in
Tall Grass and Weeds)
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:24:31 -0700
From: Deborah L. White <gaidheal _at_ distantoaks.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] ebay nightmares
Colin and all,
> Looking at the sellers web-site, it seems the instruments are "sold as is"
> or "sale final". That would seem to indicate a couple of things to me. One
> is that they are being sold as antique instruments and not as musical
> instruments and that the seller may not know if they work or not. In other
> words there is no guarantee that they work at all or if they can ever be
> made to work. It may be ok if you have the skill to rebuild or use the
> original to make plans from it. As for me, I'll keep putting my pennies in
> the jar until I can afford one from someone who knows about them and can
> help out in person if there are problems.
Three red flags for me, regarding this particular merchant.
1. He doesn't take credit cards. You automatically lose the protection that
a credit card purchase offers you.
2. The Web site says the following:
"Do not call! Contact us by e-mail. There is hardly anybody around to answer
your questions by phone."
This says to me that he doesn't have a good customer relations policy at
all! It's so easy not to answer e-mail! Plus, if it's a legit. business,
then why is no one there most of the time?
3. The business doesn't have it own domain name. Any business worth its salt
can get its own domain name for $35 or less per year.
I wouldn't touch this one with a ten-foot pole -- good reviews on E-Bay or
not.
Deborah
----------------
Distant Oaks
Celtic & Early Music
http://www.distantoaks.com
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 08:37:44 -0700
From: Deborah L. White <gaidheal _at_ distantoaks.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Cotton question...
Zhenya,
> But what pretty photos.
> reference:
> http://distantoaks.com/hurdygurdy/finished.html
Thanks. :-)
Deborah
----------------
Distant Oaks
Celtic & Early Music
http://www.distantoaks.com
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Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 18:31:36 +0200
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] for sale on Ebay Hurdy Gurdy, Pajot Jeune a Jenzat,
late 1800s
Hello together,
I was looking carefully at the Pojot. It is curious, the instrument looks
far too good for this age, it has not been playd often! (at all???).
The keys look not old enough, they also do not look as they were replaced
(?). I have and old Lasnier from 1879, very good condition, a wheel with
no crack, many scratches and the (white) keys have hollows as VERY old
church stairs. This instrument was definitely played a lot.
Also, you don't see the wheel! On old hurdy gurdies the is no way to get
the wheel out and, as the wheels were one piece of wood that time the
tend to crack easily.
What I mean... it really looks nice, but don't expect you can play it!
Anyway... good luck together
Helmut Gotschy
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 18:35:19 +0200
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] Cotton question...
Hi together
I use simple car polishing cotton since ages, you get it everywere and it is
cheap.
It should be 100% viscose with no bubbles and long graind. When you move it
between your fingers it should feel "dry", not slippery.
At the moment I am working on a web-tutor for cottoning. I'll let you know
when it is finished.
Greetings
Helmut Gotschy
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 12:37:02 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] A cheerful rebuttal to Zhenya's Capt's C. analysis.
I did quote the one lyric mistakenly.
:)
Not "Oh what a wonderful man,
but, "oh what a terrible man."
I wondered if someone would shout me that.
jim
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:03:30 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [HG] La Sagesse Nouormande on tour in Jersey - photos.
Just curious, what are those danced performed on the pictures ?
Hnery
peter.j.hughes _at_ bt.com a écrit :
> Hello Everybody,
>
> I thought some of you might enjoy a few pictures of our recent mini-tour.
>
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 21:28:52 -0500
From: Rob McConnell <robrmcc _at_ mts.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] for sale on Ebay Hurdy Gurdy, Pajot Jeune a Jenzat,
late 1800s
Just some comments about the HG on ebay.
To answer Helmut's question about the wheel, if you page through the
posted pictures you find that there are additonal pictures, some of the
wheel. Only partial pictures to be sure, but it appears to be in
acceptable shape. There is also cotton (lots of cotton!! too much??) on
the strings and rosin on the wheel so it might be playable and it might
have been played recently. Has anyone asked them to forward pictures
specifically showing the wheel and asking about the history of this
instrument?
In addition if you go direct to their web site and page through it you
can see that this business has a lot of other instruments listed with
pictures. The instruments I looked at were very good quality and in very
good condition. If they are de-frauding people they are going to a lot
of trouble to do it. They also have listed banjos at several pretty
reputable music stores in Toronto with the Twelfth Fret being one of them
and arguably the best high end acoustic guitar store in Toronto. Anyone
interested could place a call to the Twelfth Fret and likely find out how
legitimate they are. They have also included their address so you could
call the BBB or the RCMP (OPP??) in Barry's Bay in Ontario (it really
does exist) and ask about them. Lastly they recently (within the last
year) sold a Colson HG on ebay. Did anyone on the list purchase it?
If so what was their experience. Email Music Treasures and ask for a
reference for that purchaser. As to their comment on not being around
much to answer the phone, it is clear from the number and quality of
instruments that someone is spending a lot of time on the road finding
these instruments. It could be as simple as they really aren't around
much.
I guess in closing I would have to say that anyone buying anything on
ebay, or anywhere else for that matter, has to be careful but there is
not really a lot about this particular listing or business that is very
suspicious. They certainly aren't HG experts, but there is nothing
surprising about that. Anybody with an interest in this instrument could
minimize the risk with a bit of due diligence and basic research.
That said, I might have friends who live close by to Barry's Bay, so if
anyone is interested let me know and I may be able to get them to check
it out for you.
Rob McC
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:39:50 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: [HG] Maxou's email
Hi list
A dear friend of mine asked me Maxou's email address,
I MUST have it somewhere but I can't find it because
of the mess in my PC....
Can you help me?
Thanks
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 00:55:14 -0700
From: John Woosley <johnwoosley _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] for sale on Ebay Hurdy Gurdy, Pajot Jeune a Jenzat,
late 1800s
Thanks Rob, for your de-flammatory and well-reasoned treatment of this
subject. I completely agree that the seller is probably one of integrity,
though as you say, it wouldn't be surprising if they were not HG experts. An
inquisitive potential buyer might find out much about this instrument and
for the right price, the gurdy might make its way to the right person ideal
to get it playing again... which is of course what we all want!
That said, I couldn't personally consider or endorse the purchasing of any
high-ticket antique on eBay. Not because of the rare risk of fraud, even - a
phenomenon not unique to online auctions, what with the recent price-fixing
antitrust scandals at well-known New York auction houses, not to mention the
proliferation of forgeries in the fine art market - but simply because it's
essential to be able to personally and physically inspect any used antique
which a buyer intends to utilise in its original functionality.
Best wishes to all,
John Woosley
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:08:51 +0200
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] for sale on Ebay Hurdy Gurdy, Pajot Jeune a Jenzat,
late 1800s
Hello Rob,
thanks for your message, I know thes pics, but they don't say that the
wheel has no crack! And cotton on a string means actually nothing, I'
have seen many gurdies which sounded but were not really playable.
Greetings
Helmut
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 01:31:32 -0700
From: John Woosley <johnwoosley _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] Coil Remote Viewer
Hello All,
For anyone interested in the more eclectic manifestations of recorded hurdy
gurdy music, there is a recent release by Coil which prominently features
Cliff Stapleton.
Coil are are an experimental/electronic/occult (for lack of better
descriptives) ensemble based in the UK who have recorded a wide variety of
musics over the past two decades. For their recent European and UK tour,
they enlisted the aid of Cliff Stapleton, who contributed on the live tour
and also on a limited CD-R release available only at shows (now sold out
unfortunately). The CD is entitled "The Remote Viewer" and contains a
lengthy drone-based, layered piece which seems to be built around the hurdy
gurdy foundation track(s), as well as two more pieces which are treatments
and reworkings of the first.
It's lovely stuff, if you like that sort of thing - as the saying goes.
Personally I can't stop listening to it - I find it hypnotic and
enthralling, and thought some on the list might be interested to learn
about the project too.
Anyone interested hearing the disc may contact me privately. Some
information may also be found at Coil's website,
http://brainwashed.com/coil/. This mainpage features the cover image of the
Remote Viewer sleeve. There are some live photos at
http://www.thresholdhouse.com/live.html, however no prominent images of HG
playing, though Cliff is discernable in the background of one photo.
Cheers
John
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:36:51 +0200
From: "Allemeersch Luc, DELIGHT" <luc.allemeersch _at_ delight.be>
Subject: [HG] Maxou's email
I thinks it is maxoubbn _at_ aol.com .
Best Regards,
_Luc
Luc Allemeersch
Database Administrator voice +32-59-554575
Delight Information Systems fax +32-59-806888
Archimedesstraat 7, Bus 6
mailto:luc.allemeersch _at_ delight.be
B-8400 Oostende, Belgium http://www.delight.be
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:15:09 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] for sale on Ebay Hurdy Gurdy, Pajot Jeune a Jenzat,
late 1800s
I didn't mean to infer that the company was not reputable - only that they
specialised in antique musical instruments and, as such, would be more
interested in the age and looks rather than on the musical qualities.
We look for playable instruments not ones that deserve a place in a museum
where it doesn't matter if they play or not. Some of their instruments are
in poor condition (bits missing etc) but are really rare. These are
historical antiques. Many of their items will, no doubt, be sold through
other outlets but I feel these will have been checked by an expert as to
their suitability for playing.
It begs the question as to how and why it is available now and why, if it is
playable, has the HG "network" not known about it?
I have seen concertinas sold as antiques for high figures and they have been
of little use except for spares. If they make a noise and the bellows isn't
hanging off, they were being sold by antique dealers as in playing
condition.
it wasn't the dealer trying to fool anyone - they honestly didn't know
anything about them.
It would be interesting if anyone on the list finds out at a later date who
bought it and if it worked
Keep your eyes and ears open and let us know.
Colin Hill.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 11:03:29 EDT
From: Maxoubbn _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Maxou's email
I agree
Maxou
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Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:15:47 +0100
From: peter.j.hughes _at_ bt.com
Subject: RE: [HG] La Sagesse Nouormande on tour in Jersey - photos.
> From: Henry Boucher [mailto:boite _at_ sympatico.ca]
> Sent: 12 June 2002 18:04
> Subject: Re: [HG] La Sagesse Nouormande on tour in Jersey - photos.
>
> Just curious, what are those danced performed on the pictures ?
>
I'm not sure - we had to leave before the main event started and missed
these performances. The dancers with the ladies wearing large lace hats
came from somewhere in Normandy.
Peter.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 10:23:58 -0700
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] A cheerful rebuttal to Zhenya's Capt's C. analysis.
Ohmygod! So 'King of the Hill' is based on reality? I am almost
afraid to ask, but do you own a John Deere?
Juan
>
>I'd like to discuss this further, but we had a wet spring, and as I
>look out the window I can actually see the grass growing. Gotta go,
>gotta mow.
>
>Later, Roy T. (usually Springtown, TX, USA, but at the moment I'm in
>Tall Grass and Weeds)
>
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 13:28:23 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Captians ... , also boston
Chatting...
It was fun writing about the movie.
I guess Manuel says about his hurdy gurdy that it was what his father gave
him, and his father had given to him. And, that his father was from the
Madra Islands. Is this the island he meant? I am so unsure. All fiction, I
realize.
All of this suggests the wonder of
why this instrument was thought of in this romantic sort of story. Well, the
obvious; because the hurdy gurdy is a maritime instrument. Or is it? Now
possibly in the original book, there is no hurdy gurdy. So the movie screen
writer put that in. I'm not entirely sure of these details.
I noticed the purfing is very pronounced on the hurdy gurdy that Spencer
Tracey uses.
The spirit in which I write is in just happy if someone knows more.
I guess I thought to suggest that, not that Spencer Tracey had a lesson,
more like a two minute, or even one minute, here's how you hold your right
hand. Then, the left hand and strap are more completely wrong, technically.
Different subject:
I guess I'll try hurdy-gurdy busking a little in Boston.
We're going there for one day, tomorrow.
First time out of Maine since September 11th.
Taking the family.
jim et al
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 16:31:19 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Captians ... , also boston
Keep moving, buddy! The permit-issuers take busking very seriously down
there! And so do the established buskers, so I am led to believe...
~ Matt
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2002 18:24:23 -0700
From: Deborah L. White <gaidheal _at_ distantoaks.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Cotton question...
Hi Helmut,
> I use simple car polishing cotton since ages, you get it everywere and it is
> cheap.
> It should be 100% viscose with no bubbles and long graind. When you move it
> between your fingers it should feel "dry", not slippery.
> At the moment I am working on a web-tutor for cottoning. I'll let you know
> when it is finished.
Thank you for the information -- and I'll be looking forward to seeing your
Web tutor for cottoning.
Deborah
----------------
Distant Oaks
Celtic & Early Music
http://www.distantoaks.com
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 02:15:50 EDT
From: Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com
Subject: [HG] Re: Captain's Courageous
Has anyone actually read the book?
It's TONS better than the movie- and not a speck of gurdy (real, imagined or
otherwise dubbed) in sight.
Felicia.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2002 21:08:51 -0600
From: Barry Black <bbc0 _at_ telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Cotton question...
A while ago I came across a website where Nigel Eaton had described to
install cotton. Unfortunately recently I had to replace my hard drive and
lost track of this site, but it seemed to be very informative. I anyone
else knows of it, I would appreciate getting the URL again.
Barry
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 00:19:09 -1000
From: Don Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Cotton question...
As far as I know that's on Mauro Ravera's website. Unfortunately, I've
tried every listed link to that page without success. Does anyone know
his new address? Or maybe the site was just down tonight...
Aloha-
Don
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 11:33:20 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] boston and me
Greetings all,
Just back. I had wanted to write a hilarious letter, but sometimes I
hesitate and think to myself that this is not meant to be a frivolous sort
of list.
Rarely does someone come bounding through the door so to speak with
rip-roaring stories of humor connected with the hurdy gurdy. So I feel more
in a mood to tame it down. To cool it, cyberly speaking. I won't even
mention the fire alarm going off in the hotel, or the one person's heart
condition, or the baby
falling out of the stroller, or terrorist fears in the stair well, or the
fire trucks, or all
the feelings associated with being in any city at this point in my life.
American cities at least, to me, feel like holding onto a live electric
wire.
Ok, I'll shut up.
As for the hurdy gurdy, I did not busk, not because of admonishments here. I
had already left. Nothing sophisticated. It just was raining.
Future plans can be a mute point as I think that I will rarely be in Boston,
may be once every two years.
New York, specifically Manhattan, could come up later this year.
Being warned about legalities with respect to playing the hurdy gurdy on the
street only add to the already complex experience of owning this wonderful
instrument. So let's see, I may be have to think in various disciplines to
even be a smart and successful hurdy-gurdy player. I must be a musician of
course, but also a luthier, to be a little bit of one I mean, to be an
historian, to be a little bit French (a nice thought,) and to be a bit of a
lawyer, in case I am close to be arrested.
I did get to show the instrument to two high-level folk musicians. Both have
toured Europe and done a lot of studio work. And today I will be showing a
high-level jazz musician the instrument. So things balance out.
I think that Matthew had a nice style to his letter as he just admonished me
to keep movin'--regarding busking in Boston.
To wind things up, I was so glad to be back north that I bought a breakfast
for my pig of Raspberry muffin and a big pecan roll.
Hi Matt. I'll be in Camden again today. A jazz gig. I'll show a pianist the
hurdy gurdy, someone who is probably as good as most any jazz player north
of New York.
I hope that this letter was not too dull.
Follow is a nice photo link, and I can not remember if I posted it last week
when I found it.
<I don't expect Spencer Tracy was actually playing the hurdy-gurdy
anymore than I expect he was actually a lawyer while doing "Adams Rib".>
:)
I do agree. I only was musing about how when they made the movie, the hurdy
gurdy must have come from someone somewhere. I even thought that may be the
screen writer somehow had a story, lost forever, of having run into a hurdy
gurdy. Just how did it all come about, and I wonder where they filmed the
movie. I don't think I ever studied the credits for more clues.
Here is link showing Freddie Bartholomew holding that hurdy gurdy.
It's not a great photo for seeing the instrument, but still...
Looks like he, Mr. Bartholomew, died in real life in 1992.
http://www.geocities.com/~childactors/images/H/freddiebartholomew11a.jpg
best wishes: jim
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 12:55:30 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] boston and me
At 11:33 AM 6/15/02 -0400, you wrote:
>Greetings all,
>Just back. I had wanted to write a hilarious letter, but sometimes I
>hesitate and think to myself that this is not meant to be a frivolous sort
>of list.
>Rarely does someone come bounding through the door so to speak with
>rip-roaring stories of humor connected with the hurdy gurdy. So I feel more
>in a mood to tame it down. To cool it, cyberly speaking. I won't even
>mention the fire alarm going off in the hotel, or the one person's heart
>condition, or the baby
>falling out of the stroller, or terrorist fears in the stair well, or the
>fire trucks, or all
>the feelings associated with being in any city at this point in my life.
>American cities at least, to me, feel like holding onto a live electric
>wire.
Please, tell us - we could all use a bit of humor! Those who don't want to
bother know where the delete button is. We are first and foremost a
community here. I'm reminded of that each time I get some advice about my
building or playing, and each time I give advice about the same. You
probably feel the same way, Jim.
>As for the hurdy gurdy, I did not busk, not because of admonishments here. I
>had already left. Nothing sophisticated. It just was raining.
>Future plans can be a mute point as I think that I will rarely be in Boston,
>may be once every two years.
>New York, specifically Manhattan, could come up later this year.
>Being warned about legalities with respect to playing the hurdy gurdy on the
>street only add to the already complex experience of owning this wonderful
>instrument. So let's see, I may be have to think in various disciplines to
>even be a smart and successful hurdy-gurdy player. I must be a musician of
>course, but also a luthier, to be a little bit of one I mean, to be an
>historian, to be a little bit French (a nice thought,) and to be a bit of a
>lawyer, in case I am close to be arrested.
>I did get to show the instrument to two high-level folk musicians. Both have
>toured Europe and done a lot of studio work. And today I will be showing a
>high-level jazz musician the instrument. So things balance out.
>I think that Matthew had a nice style to his letter as he just admonished me
>to keep movin'--regarding busking in Boston.
That wasn't meant to be an "admonishment." Just a friendly warning based
of what I've heard from others who have attempted to busk in the Boston
area. I've never done it myself, so I'm not speaking from experience.
>To wind things up, I was so glad to be back north that I bought a breakfast
>for my pig of Raspberry muffin and a big pecan roll.
>Hi Matt. I'll be in Camden again today. A jazz gig. I'll show a pianist the
>hurdy gurdy, someone who is probably as good as most any jazz player north
>of New York.
I'm off work due to the rain - if you get this in time, please call me and
bring the hurdy-gurdy by. I'd love to see what kind of progress you've
made on it...
~ Matt
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew Szostak - Hurdy-Gurdies
7 Grove Street
Camden, Maine 04843
phone: 207-236-9576
email: gurdy _at_ midcoast.com
website: http://www.midcoast.com/~beechhil/vielle
--------------------------------------------------------------------
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 11:01:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: Captain's Courageous
--- Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com wrote:
> Has anyone actually read the book?
Hey, hey Felicia, funny you should mention. I had an old copy left over
from ... and dragged it out after this last discussion with Jim. I
didn't remember Manuel at all. But he is the one that pulled the boy
(Harvey) out of the water. He says he's from Madeira.
When it was too stormy to fish, the men would crowd up below decks:
play music, sing, and tell stories. Dan Troop , the Captain's son,
played Accordian.
"...Tom Platt leaned down to a locker and brought up an old white
fiddle. Manuel's eye glistened and from somewhere behind the pawl-post
he drew out a tiny guitar-like thing, with wire strings, which he
called a NACHETTE" [italics in text] [p. 56]
I found the whole book on 2 or 3 different websites researching
"nachette", but no other references to a musical instrument. One would
assume that if Kipling meant "rajao" he would have commented on the
fishy shape.
> It's TONS better than the movie- and not a speck of gurdy (real,
> imagined or
> otherwise dubbed) in sight.
Once again I must respectfully disagree... At one point Dan and Manuel
are in a dory, razzing another schooner.
One of the rejoinders "Hey, you Portugoosey organ-grinder, take your
monkey back to Gloucester..."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Confidential: to SB/JW: I don't watch that show much because I know
those people, many times over, and it makes me a little uncomfortable
to see the caricatures.
Later, Roy T.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 17:58:45 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: Captain's Courageous
>
>Once again I must respectfully disagree... At one point Dan and Manuel
>are in a dory, razzing another schooner.
>One of the rejoinders "Hey, you Portugoosey organ-grinder, take your
>monkey back to Gloucester..."
Hmm... a "hurdy-gurdy" reference in the book after all. Is it really that
far a stretch to plunk a "real" hurdy-gurdy into Manuel's lap for the
screenplay?
Roy, do you disagree about the hurdy-gurdy reference, or that the book is
better than the movie?
As for the latter: I haven't read the book, but being a schooner guy, I
must say that you would be hard pressed to find a better, more exciting
presentation, in any medium, of fishing schooners racing back to port to
fetch the highest price for the cargo. This is because the movie was
filmed when those boats were still in use, and there were still guys crazy
enough to go out there and sail their boats that way for the cameras. That
footage was the real thing; no models, props, or special effects anywhere
(at least until Manuel ends up in the drink). I don't think RT would hold
it against them, though. To READ a truly exciting description of such an
event would, in my opinion, require a healthy knowledge of sailing and
schooner terminology. Just watch the movie and giggle at the hurdy-gurdy
playing scene and be amazed by the sailing footage.
There is a windjammer festival each year in Camden on Labor day (September)
weekend; as part of the festivities the local movie theater shows the film
for free. Jim, come on down and see it on the big screen! There was a
remake of the film in the 1980's; much of it was filmed in Camden, and the
boats used were Camden windjammers. I think Earnest Borgnine was in
it. Do not, I repeat, do NOT see this version. Don't say I didn't warn you...
~ Matt
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 20:41:36 EDT
From: RJNA _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: Captain's Courageous
This is a real Manhattan story:
I had hailed a cab and had my hurdy gurdy with me (no, I wasn't busking, I
was headed to an early music class). The cab driver asked me what I had in
the case and I told him it was a hurdy-gurdy. He said, "Oh, like Captains
Courageous, right?" We got to talking about hurdy-gurdies, and he actually
came to our spring concert. Much nicer than the cab driver whom I asked if
he could take me to Grand Central, and he said, "I can't take you anywhere,
lady, unless you get in the cab."
Rebecca
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 15 Jun 2002 22:54:25 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Sea shanties
If you are curious about the use of a HG on a sail boat you should
have a look
at this http://www.chasse-maree.com/cgi-bin/chasse-maree.storefront/FR
In the booklet there is a photo of Eugène Ballan , sailor and HG player
on the
" Léone " ( trois mats goëlette ) in 1922 .
On the picture he plays a Pimpard " a hautes éclisses " ( deep bodied
guitar shape )
instrument .... ( the C# seems to be missing <g>)
For more sea shanties , ( but less HG ) :
http://www.chasse-maree.com/cgi-bin/chasse-maree.storefront/FR
Henry
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 20:37:26 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: [HG] Re: [HG) new york
Dear Rebecca aka RJNA,
:)
Since you mention Manhattan, I wonder if you would be a hurdy-gurdy
player living in New York City.
Just curious.
jim
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 20:44:48 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] boston/ friday
Dear list-community,
This story was requested a little. I suppose that it could be worth a cent
or two.
I guess this is a virtual community. I imagine that this letter is mere
chatting.
As far as my trip to the big city, somehow it seemed just so complicated and
so overwhelming--Boston. For me it was so relieving to be able to get back
home and buy a nice breakfast for my pet pig, Petunia. The simplicity of
that compared to the much different life of a huge,
daunting city, along with seeing the children's hospital there.
I can write this recounting, but e mail could be risky. Someone might write,
"why don't you just control your kids." Of course I guess that would hurt a
little.
I do try...
This is a story about a break down of the control of everything.
A day which was dramatic even by my standards.
I do have nine kids. They are so sweet, though two
of them have unusual behaviors.
We were in Boston on Friday
for a medical consultation regarding my little baby's breathing. Combined
with that was envisioned to include showing the hurdy gurdy to some folks
and may be
busking for a couple of minutes.
We were fish out of water in big city.
The hospital scene was also stressful to experience.
At one point I was lost and wandered through the back door
of a pediatric, renal dialysis unit. I just was quite emotionally shaken by
all of it.
My baby, age 14 months, had this one electronic test (iontophoresis). (CF
result negative.)
It all seemed just "too much." I am sure that it was stressful to my other
kids, too.
Boston Children's hospital handles some unbelievably hard cases that
I can not even mention here. It goes beyond words--beyond any normal range
of emotions to learn of what realities exist for some families.
We did think for a moment of the hospital having a staff juggler or
hurdy-gurdy player; may be that would be nice.
Cheering up for us was supposed to involve only light busking. We were too
rushed, though.
Instead I was just able to show two professional folk musicians my new
hurdy gurdy.
They came to our hotel room next to the hospital.
One of the visiting musicians is age 50 and has a severe heart condition.
I've described the day so far--the stress and strain.
The plan was that we would wrap up the morning and check out of the hotel.
My five year old son has pretty much a hyperactive
personality. I mean he has it. The doctor here offered to give us the
official diagnosis of we wanted to have it. That is Zoya.
Zoya went down ahead with my sister. I packed up the hurdy gurdy and the
rest of us headed down. Halfway down the fire alarm went off. The flashing
lights and sound seemed scary and I even started to panic a tiny little bit
thinking of terrorism. The elevators were shut off. We headed with a
growing crowd behind us to the emergency stair well. The man with me who
has the heart condition insisted on grabbing the stroller, with the baby in
it. I could not regain control of the situation as the crowd grew. Half way
down in there,
the one man lost control of our stroller and the baby fell out onto the
concrete floor. Well, I am freaking out at this point, all the while with my
hurdy
gurdy in its case but strapped on my back.
We pulled it all together and held the baby, and made our way out as the
crowd was all right there behind us. On the street we all gathered together
and at least could realize
that the baby would be fine, not seriously hurt.
The fire engines distracted
the baby enough to stop crying. We stood and watched in amazement.
After all that we said our "good byes" and did our final appointment back
inside Children's Hospital. By now it was raining. We loaded up, sort of
emotionally wiped out, and said to ourselves "get me out of here." It took
an hour to just get out of the city. We made it into Maine, over that
one big bridge that seems to be the only way in and out of Maine from the
south.
With a deep sense of relief we got into the state found a restaurant.
That is when my wife told me that it was actually my son, Zoya, who had
pulled the fire alarm back in the hotel. She thought I knew, my sister had
confessed to her, but I had no
idea until then. The moment was sort of like laughing and crying.
What a day.
So instead of busking, that is what happened./ jim
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 21:22:17 -0700
From: Christina Wright <ccwright _at_ blackandwright.net>
Subject: [HG] Great Gurdy For Sale
Dear List,
I have just received an e-mail from Gilles Chabenat. Apparently the
sale of his hurdy gurdy did not go through as expected, so it's available
once again. If you're one of the people who kicked yourself for NOT jumping
at it last time, you've got a second chance.
To remind you, this hurdy gurdy was made by Siorat, and it's the one
Gilles used in the cd with Frederic Paris, "de l'eau et des amandes." He is
asking 6,000 euros for it.
To discuss this with Gilles, you're welcome to send him e-mail directly
at gchabenat2 _at_ 9online.fr.
Yours,
Chris Wright
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Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 21:51:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: Captain's Courageous
--- Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com> wrote:
> Hmm... a "hurdy-gurdy" reference in the book after all. Is it
> really that
> far a stretch to plunk a "real" hurdy-gurdy into Manuel's lap for the
> screenplay?
Kinda along the lines of what I was thinking, they may not have had any
better luck finding a nachette that I did. I think it was important to
plunk something exotic into his lap.
>
> Roy, do you disagree about the hurdy-gurdy reference, or that the
> book is
> better than the movie?
Hmmmn, do I hafta choose? <g> Really I was disagreeing with the "no
real or imagined" statement. But to me comparing the two is kinda
like apples and oranges. A picture is supposed to be worth 1000 words,
but one can do things with words that can't be done with pictures, and
vice versa. Very few movies follow the book very closely and those that
do tend to fall flat. Kipling had the leisure to fully flesh out a crew
of 8 with distinct personalities, Fleming needed to concentrate on 3
characters to illustrate his salient point.
In both cases you may as well stop when they return to shore, because
too much time and material are wasted on gloppy, maudlin,
sentimentalism. The other thing they share is an almost documentary
look at a fascinating way of life that's gone now...except for you,
Matt; sail on, sail on....
I think everybody should read the book and see the movie, at least once
each. Both are classics in their own medium.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
While I advocate the lore of the gurdy, and the community, as well as
the data, I think we're getting a bit off topic. Anybody got a nice
mambo rhythm for the Chien they'd like to share?
Roy T. (about 2/3rds out of the weeds)
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 03:01:25 EDT
From: Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com
Subject: [HG] Re: Captain's Courageous- last time for me, I hope!
Okay, the footage of the schooners is really fantastic and that it's real
boats/sailors/fishermen makes it even better- but unfortunately, I read the
book (and it is glopy and sentimental- not to mention classist, etc) before
seeing the movie so for me the book is the "real" version of the story. This
is a pretty common occurance...
"Hey, you Portugoosey organ-grinder, take your monkey back to Gloucester..."
sounds like a racial-style insult to me, not a reference to a musical
instrument. Besides, I bet a penny he meant a barrel organ. (You can see
just how sure of myself I am here by the amount of the bet!!!)
I've got some friends in Friesland who have spent a fair amount of time in
Portugal. I'll ask them what a "nachette" is 'cause now I'm curious.
Whew. That's enough about this for me. You're right, Roy, we are pretty off
topic!
F.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 12:37:35 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: Captain's Courageous- last time for me, I hope!
For those who haven't read it - see
http://www.bookrags.com/books/cptcr/PART4.htm for the relevant section.
It may be off-topic but my appetite is now whetted. What is a nachette?
Apart from proper names, all I can find on the web is the ref to Copt C!
It does sound a lot like a ukulele though doesn't it?
I can't see a HG surviving the wet conditions at sea and wouldn't wire
strings have too great a tension?
If anyone finds the answer please post it so I can get to sleep at night!
:-)
Colin Hill
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 09:18:15 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: Captain's Courageous- last time , no no
Please continue any thoughts.
I don't feel as if the topic is uninteresting.
I am reading every word with interest.
jim
<<please post it so I can get to sleep at night!... >>
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 17:05:28 -0500
From: Heidi & Steve <heidiste _at_ concentric.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Cotton question...
My wife would recommend rolling it tightly and installing it in the ears.
Of course that may be due to my playing ability.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Barry Black" <bbc0 _at_ telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Cotton question...
> A while ago I came across a website where Nigel Eaton had described to
> install cotton.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 22:52:20 -0400
From: Tobie Miller <recorderist _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] New to the list
Hi everybody,
I've been lurking for a few days, so I guess it's time to introduce myself.
My name is Tobie Miller, and I'm studying early music performance at McGill
University in Montréal, Canada. My main instrument is recorder, although I
also sing, and my background is on modern flute and piano. I play a lot of
medieval music (yes, I dress up in costumes and play for weddings and
banquets!) and have decided that I would like to take up the hurdy-gurdy
(which has fascinated me for years.) Only problem is I'm not sure what type
of instrument to get. So, my question for everyone out there is:
What make/model of instrument do you play? or, what instruments have you
tried that you really liked?
Any suggestions would be most appreciated. (Oh, yes, and I'd be using it
for folk and other stuff as well, so I actually do need an instrument with
chromatic keyboard and trompette - as much as a symphonie would be authentic
for the medieval stuff, I just can't see it being practical...)
Thanks,
Tobie
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Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 23:59:44 +0000
From: ben grossman <nostyle _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [HG] New to the list
Hey, Toby!
Sorry that I pooped out on you on Friday - eyelids still on Vienna time!
Welcome to the list!!
Regards,
ben
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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 00:09:58 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] New to the list
I may have a good tip since you are in Quebec.
Others may have other fine ideas, too.
He is within driving distance.
I understand he is great.
http://www.abacom.com/~ansim/index.htm
That shows his instrument.
Or:
Secondly my friend in Maine; hi Matt.
Incredible instruments.
http://www.midcoast.com/~beechhil/vielle/
Both can be visited in person.
The latter is farther from you, but as a destination, it can't be beat.
Hills, ocean, islands, schooners.
And as I've said, he seems to have hundreds of them all crowded into his
living room.
:)
There is one Reichmann on e bay, too.
However, I'd recommend really saving and using on of the two above.
best wishes,
jim winters
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:11:18 +0100
From: Nicholas O Sullivan <nosullivan _at_ stangelascollegesligo.ie>
Subject: RE: [HG] New to the list
Hi Tobie,
Chris Allen makes a hurdy-gurdy disguised as a symphonie
here's his page:
http://www.luthiers60.freeserve.co.uk/instruments.html
He's a good maker and very personable, he di dexcellent repair work on
my hurdy-gurdies and renaissance lute
regards
nicholas o'sullivan
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 10:50:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Cotton question...
Steve wrote:
> My wife would recommend rolling it tightly and installing it in the ears.
> Of course that may be due to my playing ability.
We've considered asking our customers how many people and animals are in
their household, and providing the requisite number of earplugs. ;-)
Alden
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:37:00 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over this!!!!!!!!!!
Hi,
This is Laura, Jim Winters Wife, We are having a very heated discussion
about something that happened over the weekend. He said that I am not a
music lover so... I am being totally crazy in my thoughts here..
Please all you music lovers please vote and let me know what you
would have done...
The Story...
Last weekend we had to go to Boston Children's hospital with my 14 month old
Daughter."She has severe asthma" They can not treat her here in Maine and
have sent her to Boston Children's Hospital
Well we went to the first app. at 8:O'clock in the morning and spend the
next 4 hours running around the hospital getting tests done on her.. Well
the last test was at 12:30 and we had 45 minutes to wait so we went back to
the hotel and packed up our stuff and proceeded to the elevator the baby was
in the stroller laying down..
There was two suit cases on the top of the stroller. I was pushing the
stroller and Jim was carrying his Hurdy Gurdy " Ya know it goes everywhere
with him" and his trombone over the other shoulder. Well them the fire
alarm went off and we were on the 4th floor looking at each other I pushed
the elevator button and someone said in a loud voice the elevator will not
work.. So We went to the stairs, I was pushing the stroller and Jims Sister
boyfriend Richard helped me," He has severe heart problems and should not
have been helping...
I walked down the first step and he held the stroller and Jim was behind us
holding his instrument.well just then Richard lifted up on the stroller and
I could not even the stroller out fast enough.. and the baby slid out of the
stroller on to the stairs unto her head and was screaming!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I then grabbed the baby and just ran down the stairs and got out of the
building..
Now the Vote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I told Jim that he should have put the
instruments sown and grabbed the baby and
care more about the baby then the instruments. Well he said no...........
I did now want them stolen.
Please let me know what you would have all done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
P.S. I am 6 months pregnant and should not have really carried anything....
Thankyou...
Laura " Mom to the baby with the bump on her head"
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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 15:30:51 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
Well Laura,
it sounds as if Jim is incurable. I would have tried to figure out
how to do both at the same time and probably exploded in the process,
ruining both instrument and child in the process... Jim's reaction is
typical of one with MIAS (musical instrument acquisition syndrome).
While the APA may not have a listing, for this many of us know the
symptoms all to well (although we are in denial that they apply to
us). At least Jim's in the early stages. As it gets more advanced he
would have run his instruments out of the hotel, made sure they were
safe, and then come back for you...
Take this for what it's really worth ;-)>
-Arle
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 21:42:18 +0100 (BST)
From: Mark J Hewitt <m.hewitt _at_ computer.org>
Subject: [HG] RE: HG: More cotton
On 14-May-2000 Alden & Cali Hackmann wrote:
> We've been using fox fiber cotton, which is a naturally short-fiber cotton.
> I find it's easier to work with than the longer-fiber cotton some people
> like. For one thing, it is easier to get the amount you want, and it's
> easier to handle. With a really long-fiber cotton, you need fewer fibers,
> and it's harder to estimate and harder to wind. The stuff we get seems to
> have fewer little pieces of junk and tangles too, which I like. It comes
> in various colors, from very light tan to a medium brown. "Breeder's
> Brown" is my favorite, but the color doesn't matter at all.
I got hold of some Fox Fiber cotton. It looked just the ticket, but
it is much to soft! It goes on easily, but as soon as the wheel really
turns, there is a puff of dust and no more cotton on the string! I'm
going to have to keep looking for alternatives.
--
Mark J Hewitt at home E-Mail: Mark J Hewitt <m.hewitt _at_ computer.org>
Date: 18-Jun-2002 Time: 21:38:26
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 15:48:09 -0500
From: Heidi & Steve <heidiste _at_ concentric.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
Jim,
You would make it a lot easier on all of us if you played banjo and
accordian. Then the choice is more clear.
:)
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:00:25 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] vote!! husband and wife
Do I get to vote?
...just sat down and checked mail.
Dear Laura,
May be, in your words <I am 6 months pregnant and should not have really
carried anything.>
Yes. That was a critical point.
And, said with a very calm voice, the hurdy-gurdy and trombone combined
would have been about $5,000.
I wasn't going down without them.
Baby's ok now. I think we're play fighting.
Husband says, "well I wouldn't just leave the hurdy gurdy for someone to
steal."
Wife then reacts "what's more important."
It's just marriage stuff, nothing too serious.
Like I need to tell her that sheeee is right and I am wwwrong.
from,
jim
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 22:03:16 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
Put the baby in the instrument case!
Colin Hill
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:08:34 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
it would take so much more than a hotel fire to get me to... set down.. my
hurdy gurdy.
Nuclear bomb might.
:)
jim
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:11:23 -0400
From: Elaine Cunningham <elainecunningham _at_ cox.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] vote!! husband and wife
Somehow I doubt that the participants on this forum are qualified to mediate
in cases of marital disagreement. I strongly advise the posters find
someone who is.
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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 17:21:24 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] vote!! husband and wife
come on he sleeps with the hurdy gurdy!!!!!!!!!! That is a whole other
story...
Laura
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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 14:48:45 -0700
From: Patricia Lipscomb <hurdygurdygirl _at_ molehaven.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
Hi, my name is Trish and I have MIAS. I bought so many instruments that
we had to turn a whole room over to them. That room now houses over 20
instruments (not including my little luteback, which is getting some
adjustments), none of which I can play, unless you count the autoharp.
Trish
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Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 16:37:53 -0700
From: Cynthia A. Wright <cwright _at_ smartt.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
Hey Laura,
Well, that is truly quite the predicament...
Okay...I have to come out of hiding and say my piece here.
What would I have done if it had been me, my (now 10 month old twins)
babies, and my most precious new Bleton HG?!
Well, (like Collin already mentioned), I'd have opened up that instrument
case, plunked both babies in with my other precious baby, ditched the
stroller, and made a quick exit down the stairs. Awkward yes, but....
Glad to hear your little one (daughter) is okay, ;-)
Cheers,
Cynthia
ps. I know this doesn't really count as a vote, but HG really are part of
ones' family.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 19:58:51 -0700
From: Scott <scott _at_ olypen.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
I have only read your side of the story, but if it is true maybe you should
find a new husband. He cares more about his instruments then his wife,
child, and sister and her friend he has a serious problem.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 22:59:43 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [HG] New to the list
I was almost waiting to see somebody else bring the problem
of the presence of HGs in historical re-enactement ( I am in a 1750 era
group)
Enjoyment of the hobby of re-enactment is a matter of managing compromises <g>
Nobody want to have teeth pulled out or catch smallpox to have their
interpretation
look more realist and it would be ridiculous to run around in weird clothes
without
your " MedicAlert" bracelet if you need one .
So how many compromise do you plan ? <g>
The chromatic keyboard and " chien " did not exist in midle ages , as far as I
know.
but they do make economical sense if you can't afford two instruments,
on the other hand , a diatonic symphonia is easy to make , and since nobody
else ever saw an authentic one , you have a good margin of liberty .
Next in line , the Bosch type , never played one , not even saw one so I do
not
know how they sound .
Personnally I would be very tempted by something like this
http://jacques.grandchamp.free.fr/Musicora/pages/lmr02.htm
Called the " De la Tour " style , after the paintings of
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/xaime/vielle/histoire/delat.html
even if it is from the XVIIth cent.
What ambitus do you need ? Do you need all the half tones ?
Do you need hidden électric amplification ?
Henry
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 02:46:02 EDT
From: Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
In a message dated 6/18/02 8:02:54 PM, scott _at_ olypen.com writes:
<< I have only read your side of the story, but if it is true maybe you should
find a new husband. He cares more about his instruments then his wife,
child, and sister and her friend he has a serious problem. >>
oooooooooh... I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this.
Seriously, if it was me, William, Ranzo and our instruments and a fire alarm
went off the live things would take precedence over instruments. But, since
Ranzo is only a very small parrot it would be easy to carry him AND the
gurdy.
Personally, I would have dropped the trombone.
oooooooooh... I probably shouldn't have said that...
F.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 11:08:22 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Bryan TOLLEY <Bryan.Tolley _at_ wanadoo.fr>
Subject: [HG] The best position for the chien?
Hello Everyone,
I thought I'd take advantage of the "hurdy-gurdy" discussion group
to ask this question.
It's mainly addressed to experienced builders, but I'd be pleased
to hear from anyone who's got a very responsive chien on their
instrument and are willing to take the time to send me over a
few measurements for comparison. I'll explain what I'm after -
A new vielle under construction: Before I glue on the bridge for
the mouche (and set the position for the chien) I'd like to confirm
or perhaps improve my dimensions to get an optimum response from the
trompette. I need to know:
1. The ‘vibrating' length of the trompette, from the nut to the chien.
2. The distance between the side of the wheel and the chien.
3. The distance between the string at the notch on the chien and the vertical
face of the mouche bridge.
4. The height of the string above the soundboard where it passes the chien.
Has anyone come up with an ideal configuration for the chien position?
I'd be glad to know. Thanks for any information you can give me.
Bryan Tolley
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 02:09:33 -1000
From: Don Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
All humor aside-
maybe the two of you might consider counseling. if Jim plays the
instruments to make a living and support the family, they are obviously
necessary. and for a professional musician, the instrument becomes a
part of them. you wouldn't ask a singer to leave her throat upstairs,
after all...
on the other hand, in a scary and desperate moment perhaps everyone
needs to just do their best to help take care of everyone else, without
blame or recrimination... perhaps each person was simply reacting to the
stress of the moment, and no-one is right or wrong. Thank God that you
all are OK- not dead in a bomb blast or wounded by some horrible
accident... and everyone made it out safe. So who is to blame for that?
we need music and children both on this planet. let's learn to love each
other and live together to make it a safe world for both...
with affection-
Don
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:23:24 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, on a more serious note, did you ditch the suitcases? The contents could
have been replaced over time. Also was it wise to try and keep the
stroller - wouldn't it have been better to take the baby out of it if you
were going downstairs? Was the trombone insured - if that had been left it
may have been stolen but surely he has an "all risks" policy on it?
Seems you both reacted as best you could in very dire circumstances. Odd
things happen in moments of crisis - how often do we read about people going
back into a building for something trivial on the spur of the moment.
It's all well and good to look back on it with hindsight when you have had
time to think about it but it was a panic situation and we don't all do the
obvious things at times like that. Put it behind you and be thankful you are
all still alive and don't blame each other.
Colin Hill
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:26:04 -0400
From: Elaine Cunningham <elainecunningham _at_ cox.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
It seems to me that the wrong question is being addressed. Instead of
asking "Why didn't he leave the instruments behind?" it would be more
logical to inquire, "Why didn't it occur to anyone to leave the stroller and
pick up the baby?"
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 06:01:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Sherman <dennis_sherman _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Destrem & Heidemann stockist
Bringing back an old thread to report on results...
I ordered from amazon.de for delivery to Chicago, USA.
I did not choose expensive (fast) shipping, it took 4
weeks to arrive, and cost about US$33
No problems, other than worrying during the delay that
my nearly non-existent German had caused me to have it
shipped to Alaska or South America or something.
And now that it's here, I'm having fun working my way
through it and looking at my symphonie to see what I
can improve.
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:27:05 -0400
From: Elaine Cunningham <elainecunningham _at_ cox.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
People do grab odd things in times of crisis. An example follows.
Once while sitting in a doctor's office, I heard a bit of some talk show.
The condo building in which the actor being interviewed lived had recently
been destroyed by fire. He awoke, groggy, and ran from the building. Only
later, when he was on the street, did he realize that he was stark naked --
and that he held the TV remote in his hand.
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 10:33:06 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
What did you do about the kid who caused the crisis in
the first place?, she asked, irrelevantly.
judith
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 16:56:38 +0200
From: Reymen V <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
> hallo list,
Is there somebody playing the hg somewhere around Salzburg ?I plan to go there
on holliday but perhaps we can meet...
Marc Reymen
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 08:09:22 -0700
From: Patricia Lipscomb <hurdygurdygirl _at_ molehaven.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
Half asleep, naked, with death grip on TV remote -- sounds like every
man I've known well enough to see naked.
Trish
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 14:54:32 -0400
From: Tobie Miller <recorderist _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] New to the list
Hi everyone,
Thanks for all the advice. I haven't made a decision yet, but I'll let you
all know.
As to the authentic historical performance debate.... well that is a
dilemma. I know where I stand when I have to decide which recorders to use,
but I'm afraid I don't know a lot about the different types of hurdy-gurdies
out there. I certainly will have to compromise, as I can only buy one
instrument (oh boy, and even then I'll be eating less next year!), and while
I especially want to use it in the medieval groups I play in, I also want to
be able to use it for folk music and whatever other projects come along.
I also don't really care what it looks like, since I'm not buying several
specific instruments for each type of repertoire, I just want something that
will work well for what I'm doing. And perhaps later down the road (if I
get lots more gigs for being highly marketable as a multi-instrumentalist:
recorder, gurdy, voice) I will invest. But, you have to start somewhere.
So, yes, ideally it would be good to have a symphonie for medieval stuff, a
Renaissance instrument (Bosch maybe) for that stuff, a French Baroque
instrument for Baroque, a folk instrument, etc. Especially if you're trying
to be authentic. I'm sure that just as medieval music works so much better
on a medieval/renaissance wide-bore recorder than a late baroque recorder,
the same applies to hurdy-gurdies. It's not for the "novelty" of being
authentic that those of us who specialise choose to do so (ok, maybe at
first), but because the music just makes so much more sense on those
instruments. And those instruments give us so many clues as to how the
music should be played. I'm talking phrasing, articulation, tempo, and just
plain style and music. As soon as I picked up a recorder or a traverso,
Baroque music that I'd worked on on modern flute just made so much more
sense, and I knew how to approach it much more clearly.
In real life (i.e. not in that little bubble that is my early music degree),
there are very few people who can tell the difference (or care) whether I'm
using a Baroque or Renaissance recorder. Of course there are always a few
who notice and lord it over you if you've made a compromise (even with very
good reason), but this is rare. How many people would come up and say,
"that's not a medieval hurdy-gurdy!" More likely the comment would be
"what's that box thing? it doesn't look like a hurdy-gurdy!"
So, there are a few long-winded ideas that have appeared in my head. I'm
not very concise, and I appologize...
In answer to your questions, Henry, I would like to have 2 octaves, fully
chromatic. I wouldn't need that all the time, but I'd sure miss it if I
didn't have it and needed it! I don't think amplification stuff would be
necessary at this point. I want something simple to start, but without
compromises to range and possible keys (tonalities) and stuff.
Thanks,
Tobie
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 14:56:47 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: [HG] chiens, wheel flanges and fire alarms
Hello list-
just three things, to keep the note short--first two meant for builders,
third just my vote on the Jim/Laura issue--
1. If anyone is able to respond to Bryan's question, a CC to the list would
be greatly appreciated (tho most of the time everyone responds). thanks
much!
2. i am just beginning building, and I am trying to duplicate a method of
wheel attachment that is used by Luciano Perez in the Lugo workshop on his
gurdies, and no doubt is in use by many builders...it involvesattachment of
the crank-shaft by means of a critically-centered flange which seems to have
a set screw or some other method of attachement that is both covnenient and
can cut the fine tolerances required to avoid wobble etc. however, i can't
get any more detail from the plans i am using, marcello's book is helpful
for sure (molte grazie marcello per il diagramma!) and gets me a step closer
(and also shows an example of the older, wedge-type method) but I am at a
loss regarding supplying this hardware, or how to machine it. Cali, Alden,
others-halp! :^O
3. Re: Jim and Laura: baby first, no question. but if the instruments are a
'priority', then invest in a Baby Bjorn or similar strap-on baby carrying
device. (We have one used for sale now--shameless advertisment! ;^0
cheers,
Vlad
Wolodymyr Smishkewych, Tenor
1000 South Henderson St.
Bloomington IN 47401
U.S.A.
+1 812 336 5354
wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 13:37:44 -0700
From: Joanne Andrus <joaand _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] New to the list
Hi Tobie,
Have you checked out Olympic Musical Instruments at www.hurdygurdy.com yet?
They have a symphonie that you can get chromatic and with a chien. I have
one of these that I am very pleased with. Originally they talked about
having a diatonic version available, but I don't think they have ever built
one - chromatic is so much more versatile. You don't have to use the chien
unless you want to, and since it is inside the symphonie box it isn't
obvious that you have one until you use it.
Also, the Minstrel they make is based on a medieval Swedish design. I use
both my Minstrel and my Symphonie for early music gigs, although both would
work fine for folk music etc. At the OTW Festival two years ago Marcello
Bono played gorgeous baroque music on a Minstrel.
I also play traverso, and wide-bore Ren recorders and a "few" other
instruments, so I do understand about using the right instrument for the
music.
Joanne
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 17:12:49 -0400
From: Tobie Miller <recorderist _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] New to the list
Hi Simon, Hi Joanne,
I have actually been considering both Olympic's Minstrel and Gotscy's
'Phönix' as possibilities. Does anyone else have experience with either of
these instruments?
Also, what are the pros and cons of having the additional strings in the
Phoenix? (Two melody strings, three drones (in fifths, plus trompette)).
Are there times when it's better to have a single drone, rather than a drone
in fifths?
Thanks,
Tobie
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 17:25:28 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Wheel flange
To my taste the easiest way to secure the wheel on the shaft
is with a set screw collar .
The collar is a thick ring with a threaded hole located radially
and a small headless screw in it .
The collar is welded to a washer with holes ( 3 is a good number )
drilled arouind the central hole . Teach yourself soft silver soldering
for your own fun and profit , it is easier than it sound.
Of course the wheel well will have to be modified a wee bit to
drop the wheel with the collar protruding , place the notch on the
keyboard side . Chris Eaton uses this system
To make things nicer you may inlay the washer so it is less visible,
you can even glue a veneer over it . You can add a second set screw
for a more stable set up , or just because threading metal is a fun
thing to do once you learned how <g>
Once you have learned how to thread metal , you may as well
make a classical wheel instalation , thread the end of the shaft
on a certain lenght ( a tad over one inche is cool ) and file away
the threads on the end ( a bit under one half inche )
Glue a proper size nut in the wheel center , or better, try to find
a threaded insert , ( table leg adjuster )of the proper size .
As for voting in the Laura and Jim case , I fear my opinion
is not of much value since my HG is home made and the baby
will be borrowed ( I will be a grand dad in two weeks )
Henry
A simple trip by airplane is a serious reminder that the union
of a musician with his HG may not be eternal<g>
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 17:59:20 -0600
From: Barry Black <bbc0 _at_ telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Wheel flange
Henry,
What do you use as a flux for silver soldering?
Barry
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 17:29:57 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Wheel flange ,
And by the way , the centering of the hole in the wheel
is not that critical since the shaft will be used for the final
scraping of the wheel rim , just do an honest job of it .
Now , what is the wedge method ?
Henry
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 19:20:18 -0700
From: Deborah L. White <gaidheal _at_ distantoaks.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
Elaine and all,
> It seems to me that the wrong question is being addressed. Instead of
> asking "Why didn't he leave the instruments behind?" it would be more
> logical to inquire, "Why didn't it occur to anyone to leave the stroller and
> pick up the baby?"
I ran the story by my family (husband and two teenage sons). The conclusion
was the same as yours, Elaine. Why not leave the stroller at the top of the
stairs and carry the baby down? Or, better yet, tell someone *official* that
the elevator wasn't working and that you needed assistance. Maybe a little
forethought would have circumvented the problem? :-)
Deborah (mother and instrumentalist, all things being *almost* equal ;-))
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Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 22:59:27 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Hi ho Silver ( soldering )
I use the same flux as for indor plumbing , but beware
there is " soft silver soldering " with less than 4% silver
and " hard silver soldering " at a higher temperature ,
wich I do not know of ( yet ) .
Henry
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:20:02 +0200
From: Reymen V <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: [HG] (geen onderwerp)
This is for Tobie Miller
There is something whith his adress: he is not reachable
Hello Tobie,
I'm Marc Reymen living in Belgium and lutier
I'm not a proffesional luthier i'm an electrical engineer so building is
a hobby
I worked already some 10 years on HG's from different types.
Made some to .
Among them a diathonic box model HG 2 oktave
If you like i'll make you one, just for fun .
Costs: materials & some 50 eur for the axle ( I never make myself )
This way you don't have to compromise.
So if you are interested let me now...
Marc Reymen
reymen _at_ pandora.be
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 01:57:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chiara Negro <ghiro_chi _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] vote!! husband and wife
Dear Laura :
- serious reply :
in a emergency you have not the time to do things (
right things...), is better to stay calm. When you see
the baby fall, both Jim and you have not the time to
do anything.
- not serious :
Jim know that the kids are much more resistant than
instruments : put a baby in a room with a hg and be
back after two or three hours, the baby surely are not
damaged ! :)
With affection
Chiara
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:05:38 +0200
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] vote!! husband and wife
To give an extra to Chiaras mail:
Hurdy gurdies have a much longer waiting time than babies!
I hope all the mails help them
Helmut
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 00:13:25 -1000
From: Don Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] New to the list
I owned a Gotschy Phoenix for almost three years before my lute-back was
ready. It has a wonderful clear tone and works very well. Extra drones
give you options for playing in different keys or doubling drones for a
"fat" sound.
Aloha-
Don
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 12:43:46 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hi ho Silver ( soldering )
If you are using "hard" silver solder (and you should be), use borax (from a
chemist), mix with a little water and apply carefully. Be sure to wash all
traces of it off after use as it will eat into the metal otherwise.
I have used it for years even to making extra long drills by silver
soldering a drill bit to a silver steel rod (early attempts at drilling
bagpipe bores) and the join has never failed yet (although a few drill bits
have snapped) and also for repairing jewellery.
It's the best flux available and is cheap and can also be used as an eye
wash so not dangerous to have around the house.
Hard silver solder is usually sold as brazing solder in the UK. Soft silver
solder, I think, would not really be suitable if force is to be applied.
Colin Hill (Impetuous DIY enthusiast!)
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:00:01 +0100
From: Nicholas O Sullivan <nosullivan _at_ stangelascollegesligo.ie>
Subject: [HG] Susann Muskett Hurdy gurdy
Hello,
I have a copy of the above book in excellent condition for sale or exchange
I'm open to money offers or interesting exchange/swap
regards
nicholas
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 07:53:33 -0500
From: jr <roehmguitars _at_ midtnn.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Susann Muskett Hurdy gurdy
I am a luthier and have made many different instruments, but (so far) only
one hurdy gurdy. I would be interested in this book. I think it's Doreen,
rather than Susan Musket? I would be happy to talk money or trades. BTW, I
live in Sewanee, TN - about halfway between Nashville and Chattanooga. Where
are you located?
Thanks,
Geoff Roehm
http://roehmguitars.midtnn.net/
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 14:19:17 +0100
From: Nicholas O Sullivan <nosullivan _at_ stangelascollegesligo.ie>
Subject: [HG] Susan Palmer Hurdy gurdy
Apologies to all,
Of course it's Susann Palmer's book
...oops
nicholas
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:57:04 -0500
From: Rob McConnell <robrmcc _at_ mts.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
What an amazing waste of bandwidth this entire thread has been.
Rob McConnell
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:29:27 -0500
From: Rob McConnell <robrmcc _at_ mts.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] vote!! husband and wife
You know I just have to add something more to this discussion. I wasn't
going to add to it,it went on too long anyway, but I just can't stop
myself. This whole thing just offends me too much. Maybe this was all
supposed to be humorous, but unfortunately I don't think all of it was.
Maybe this will be my last post.
First I guess if I had 9 kids as I believe I read was the case in an
earlier post maybe I would feel differently about the two I have. But
I've seen lots of instruments of all kinds, some that I wanted to own
passionately. Oddly enough I have never seen a kid that I would rather
have then one of my own. Or an insrument I would value over a good
friend. Save a musical instrument over a baby?? Anybody's baby??
Watch a friend with a serious heart condition and your pregnant wife
try to carry stuff down the stairs while you save your instruments??
Please, if any of you are even remotely serious about that have a hard
look at your own life. Maybe look up obsession in the dictionary. Oh
and another thought. If this is a professional musician situation as
someone suggested I have one word for that: Insurance!!! Only costs a
few bucks a year. And remember Pete Townsend and the Who?? There was a
message for all of us about the source of inspiration when he smashed
his guitars on stage. It was not just foolish rock and roll.
Secondly I agree that people respond differently in emergencies. But a
false fire alarm (triggered by their own son, who was watching that
kid??) in a hotel on the third floor and the elevators don't work? Give
me a break. Fire in the hallways is an emergency. And I hate to bring
logic into this discussion, but if someone knew that the son triggered
the false alarm they must have also known it was not an emergency!!! So
where was the panic?? Why not throw the instruments and luggage back in
the room? Maybe they just wanted to get the hell out of there before
they got caught?? $500.00 fine for creating a false fire alarm in my
city. And for those who don't realize, in commercial buildings with
elevators, they always go to the ground floor and shut down when there
is a fire alarm.
As for letting the baby fall onto the cement steps on it's head, when we
had babies our strollers all had seat belts to prevent that from
happening. Next time maybe it would be a good idea to use it. I won't
even comment about this not being serious as other people have suggested.
Signing off, maybe forever.
Rob McConnell
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 10:24:46 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: [HG] Appropriateness on lists
Lately on various lists I have seen people signing off forever
because of posts/threads they didn't like. I hope Rob doesn't follow
suit. This thread is a two-three day phenomenon that will probably
not be mentioned again after today.
I looked back at Rob's posts and found that at least one of them was
highly relevant to some questions I had (he informed that an idea I
had for reaming peg holes would need to be modified). I expect others
will benefit from Rob's experience in the future.
The bulk of postings to this list are informational and constructive.
Only occasionally does this list digress very far afield from its
given topic, and even rarer are the moments when it strays into what
some (but not all) consider offensive. Even this digression is taking
up only 43K on my hard drive. I get single SPAM e-mails that are
bigger (and those DO annoy me), so psychological bandwidth aside
(where the waste is in the eye of the beholder), the thread in
question really wasn't that big.
Short of having a net nanny overseeing the list though, there is no
way to make sure that only topics that are 100% on topic will turn up
and be discussed. This requires a somewhat thick skin at times, but
this list is much better behaved than most (no one has yet called
another list member a dirty name, at least on list)!
If Rob signs off because of a topic like this we will lose the
benefit of his experience. So please hang in Rob, I suspect that the
topic will vanish soon enough, but the benefits of the list will
not...
-Arle
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 16:33:57 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Appropriateness on lists
I agree.
I think that, as a virtual community, the list is bound to get off-topic now
and again. That's part of a community.
There are lots of "on topic" subjects that are out of the reach of some (too
far away, no HG, wrong make etc) but I think we all enjoy the sense of
community.
Please don't leave the list, just hit the delete button.........please.
Colin Hill
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:10:04 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Appropriateness on lists
Hello,
I think it should be a courtesy to the members of the list to read
through a mail before posting and consider if it would'nt be better to
mark it 'OT' (off topic) or to send it to one or the other listmember
personally, not via the list.
Additionally if everybody cares to keep the subject line acctuallized
the fear of missing content when deleting mail would decrease.
regards
Simon Wascher
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 09:13:51 -0700
From: Deborah L. White <gaidheal _at_ distantoaks.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Please vote!! Husband and Wife fighting over
this!!!!!!!!!!
Laura and Jim,
Since we're totally off topic with this discussion anyway, I thought I'd
mention something about asthma here. Have you looked into homeopathy? If I
were you, I'd try to find a good homeopathic doctor in your area. There are
several homeopathic remedies listed for asthma, and one of them might be
just the right match for your daughter. Completely safe, doesn't interact
negatively with other medications, and often works wonders!
Deborah
----------------
Distant Oaks
Celtic & Early Music
http://www.distantoaks.com
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:56:47 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] A little reminder
Ahem. A little reminder from the Listmaster - we're here to talk about
hurdy-gurdies. Some discussions are better conducted off-list. Need I say more?
We now return you to your regular HG programming.
Did you hear the one about the two hurdy-gurdy players and the camel?
Alden the Listmaster
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 13:43:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vincent Ho <hbv _at_ tsoft.com>
Subject: [HG] Selling my Reichmann
I have uttered fell in love with my Puchalski guitar back, and hence have
no use for a second hurdy gurdy. Besides I need to finance my harp.
So I am selling my Reichmann Baroque Luteback Hurdy gurdy. It is
literally brand new as I never did play on it..still got the instruction
book! Check it out.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=885233819
I hope it goes to one of you...
Also, I am selling my instrument collection,
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&
userid=conradin&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25
Recorders, a Hobrough Harp, etc...good stuff.
--
Vincent B. Ho hbv _at_ tsoft.com
--
When I dream that you love me, you'll surely forgive;
Extend not your anger to sleep;
For in visions alone your affections can live,--
I rise and it leaves me to weep. George Gordon, Lord Byron (1788-1824)
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 18:20:48 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: RE: [HG] Wheel flange
Henry and all-
many thanks for the posts so far in response to the flange issue. i figured
the flange was the common method, as i saw at the Lugo workshop, but i
wonderedif this was acquired somewhere in particular, or if i am just going
to have to bite the sliver bullet and overcome my metalworking
deficiencies...perhaps there may be some souls out there who wouldn't mind
explaining some more of these metallurgical mysteries to me...
a secondary question is, due to the torque created by the resistance of
strings against the rotating wheel, does the set screw ever need to be
aligned with a recessed, flattened, or otherwise
locking-mechanism-facilitated feature on the axle where it will contact the
screw?
thanks again,
Vlad
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:04:43 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Sea shanties
At 10:54 PM 6/15/02 -0700, you wrote:
> If you are curious about the use of a HG on a sail boat you should
>have a look
>at this http://www.chasse-maree.com/cgi-bin/chasse-maree.storefront/FR
>In the booklet there is a photo of Eugène Ballan , sailor and HG player
>on the
>" Léone " ( trois mats goëlette ) in 1922 .
>On the picture he plays a Pimpard " a hautes éclisses " ( deep bodied
>guitar shape )
>instrument .... ( the C# seems to be missing <g>)
>
>
> For more sea shanties , ( but less HG ) :
>http://www.chasse-maree.com/cgi-bin/chasse-maree.storefront/FR
>
>Henry
Hi Henry-
I visited the link, but I'm not sure what it is you're directing our
attention to. I see that both of the above links are the same. Can you be
more specific?
~ Matt
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:13:50 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: Captain's Courageous
At 09:51 PM 6/16/02 -0700, you wrote:
>In both cases you may as well stop when they return to shore, because
>too much time and material are wasted on gloppy, maudlin,
>sentimentalism. The other thing they share is an almost documentary
>look at a fascinating way of life that's gone now...except for you,
>Matt; sail on, sail on....
>
>I think everybody should read the book and see the movie, at least once
>each. Both are classics in their own medium.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>--------
>While I advocate the lore of the gurdy, and the community, as well as
>the data, I think we're getting a bit off topic. Anybody got a nice
>mambo rhythm for the Chien they'd like to share?
>
>Roy T. (about 2/3rds out of the weeds)
Roy-
I wouldn't exactly call what I do a "fascinating way of life that's gone
now," but I get the idea. My boat was built in the 1920's, but there's
nothing particularly romantic about taking tourists out sailing. I manage
to put up with the tourists in order to be able to sail the beautiful boat
out on the beautiful bay all summer long, and it's worth it...
And now, back on topic (for some, I guess, anyway)...
I just loaned out my midi keyboard with lots of fancy but useless (to me)
pre-programmed rhythms. I did some web-searching, and I found a website
with LOTS of mambo (and samba, rhumba, salsa, etc) samples, but between all
the mambo samples, I couldn't find a consistent rhythm pattern. Can you
suggest a specific source of music, and those of us interested could
provide you with our own ideas of how to play the rhythm on the buzzer?
In fact, it might be an interesting thing: to see how different players
suggest rhythmic patterns for the same piece of music...
~ Matt
PS: Off topic again: Does anyone here know about how to make adjustments
*in the computer* to the input of a midi keyboard which has NO controls
itself? I need to raise the input one or two octaves for my music
transcription software, so it will display in the correct octave for
hurdy-gurdy music. Right now I have only one octave above middle c, and I
can't change it effectively at the keyboard itself or in the music
software. Please contact me off list if you have any advice...
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:57:33 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Shaft assembly
Hi Wolodimyr ,
Again do not fear , the torque on the shaft is rather light
( unless you have 8 drones and 4 chanter strings all at the same time )
normally there are only 1 or 2 chanter strings , one drone ( the c one
wich is the smaller one ) and the trompette ( with the chien )
the mouche is there mostly to prevent your shirt sleeve to touch
the trompette <g> . So there is not much drag when the string
height is well adjusted ( with the little folded papers on the bridge )
unless you used steelwool in place of cotton there is
no need for a flat spot on the shaft
I read on a CD booklet that the inventor on the replacable wheel
was George Simon ( 1902-1986) just before WW II
It sounds weird that before that all wheels were set in the
"old style " ( read : permanently )
If you do not feel the attraction for metal working ( yet )
it is possible to buy a shaft from Pascal Cranga
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/boisbuis/quicaillerie%20euros.html
Just make certain to click on the " prices in Euros"
( wich is a teeney weeny bitsy less than a US$$ )
if you want to save yourself a heart attack , as the page
still opens with the prices in francs .
Pascal Cranga is known for his honesty but also for
his busy lifestyle , your order may take more than a month
to come .
Now , Colin , do you suggest a brand name for hard silver
solder ? What should be the %content in silver ? lead ? tin ?
whatever ?
Henry
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:13:26 -0600
From: Barry Black <bbc0 _at_ telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Shaft assembly
Regarding a flat spot on the shaft.
I think this would be a good idea the main reason being that often
tightening the set screw does mark the shaft because that's how it locks the
wheel in place. This mark tends to make the wheel hard to move on the shaft
even after loosening or removing the set screw. After I filed a slight flat
spot on mine, when I loosened the screw, any damage done by it was well
below the surface of the shaft and did not impede sliding the shaft from
within the wheel and bearings.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:35:11 -0600
From: Barry Black <bbc0 _at_ telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hi ho Silver ( soldering )
Hi Colin,
When I lived in England, it was so simple to go to the chemist and get stuff
like borax, salt peter etc. Here in Canada it isn't that easy. I still
haven't figured out what methylated spirits was, but I sure used a lot of it
back there.
BB
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 21:33:38 -0700
From: David Echelard <echelard _at_ hbci.com>
Subject: [HG] Hg for modern dance
Last night in my rural mississippi river town of Winona Minnesota, I played
the first two movements of "la Baussan" by Philbert de Lavigne on my
volksgurdy and a Wild modern dancer danced to the music in a performance.
The performance was well attended as it was a minnesota state arts board
crowd at a artists and educators institute. The collaboration was so fun
and seemingly successful. The artists and educators present were
appreciative of the opportunity to hear the hurdy-gurdy and had never in
history of Minnesota's dance and music scene, seen a modern contact
improvisation dance experience with the live hurdy gurdy.
This made me wonder about interdisciplinary artistic work with the hurdy
gurdy. What kind of different disciplines can be involved? Are there
limits, are we stuck with historically authentic or traditional performance
practices? What kind of future collaborations are there?
I received a Minnesota State arts board - career opportunity grant this
year to attend the over the water hurdy gurdy festival.
In the grant I stressed the opportunities that were available at the Over
the water Hurdy gurdy festival to study baroque and new music with the
stellar instructors that will be at the festival.
I am so so happy that I actually received the grant.
I have written lots of other grants and proposals for hurdy gurdy study and
travel and not gotten the grants, so I thought it would be good to mention
that the National Endowment for the Arts and the State Arts Board of
Minnesota is actually helping further the droning of the hurdy gurdy in my
rural town of Winona Minnesota.
David Lee Echelard
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Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 22:43:07 -0700
From: Nathan Roy <imakhy _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] Peut-on m'aider?
Dear list,
I am having difficulty learning to play that new instrument of mine. You
see, I still spend so much time trying to make it sound right that practice
regular simply never happens... Basically, it's just that the drones are far
too loud, and the trompette spontaneously stops working at times. Should I
put less cotton on the drones, or can I beef up the thin tone of my
chanters? Maybe I should keep studying French and take a semester where you
can actually find weekly lessons! Guess I'll just try to be more dedicated
with that painfully slow process of daily practice. Why couldn't I just be a
natural viruoso? <sigh> Thank's for any help... And as an afterthought, are
there any CD's of HG music you could suggest? Sincerely,
Nathan Roy
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 09:21:00 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Shaft assembly
See http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~chrish/t-solder.htm for technique
Standard solder is 60% lead and 40% tin. Silver solder is 60%tin and 40%
silver.
Try
http://www.greenweld.co.uk/cgi-shopping/acatalog/index.html?http%3A//www.gre
enweld.co.uk/cgi-shopping/acatalog/Shop_Soldering_24.html&CatalogBody for a
supplier.
Hope this helps.
Colin Hill
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Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:23:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Was: Capt.s C, now Midi Mambo.
--- Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com> wrote:
> I manage
> to put up with the tourists in order to be able to sail the beautiful
> boat
> out on the beautiful bay all summer long...
OH yes, I would too. Driving a mule-cart across the prairie never
really caught on with the tourists.<g>
>
> And now, back on topic (for some, I guess, anyway)...
>
> I just loaned out my midi keyboard with lots of fancy but useless (to
> me)
> pre-programmed rhythms.
Oh, duh. I forgot about that junk.
> I did some web-searching, and I found a
> website
> with LOTS of mambo (and samba, rhumba, salsa, etc) samples, but
> between all
> the mambo samples, I couldn't find a consistent rhythm pattern. Can
> you
> suggest a specific source of music, and those of us interested could
> provide you with our own ideas of how to play the rhythm on the
> buzzer?
The steps for Mambo: _,2,3,4,_,2,3,4 Cha-cha (slow Mambo with more
intricate steps: _2,3,4&1,2,3,4&1,etc. Salsa is a faster "Street"
version of Mambo 1,2,3,_,1,2,3_ . "_" indicates a dead beat (as opposed
to a deadbeat, I'm rather sensitive on that score <g>). Rhumba is also
1,2,3,_, 1,2,3,_, but is much slower and smoother. Just playing a coup
where the steps are hasn't proven to be very interesting.
I haven't messed with my keyboard since roughly about the time that I
started playing HG, I guess I ought to excavate it and see what I can
cook up.
>
> In fact, it might be an interesting thing: to see how different
> players
> suggest rhythmic patterns for the same piece of music...
I'll see if I can gin up a couple of abc's for you.
Roy T. (may be out of the weeds tomorrow, if it don't rain.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:43:15 +0100
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] Hi ho Silver ( soldering )
The hard solders suitable for general work are called AG1 and AG2 in British
Standard terms and Easiflo and Easif you do use the normal sulphuric acid for the pickle,
always dilute it by adding acid gradually to the water, not water to acid.
George Swallow
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 13:55:22 -0700
From: Anna Peekstok <apeekstok _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: My Minstrel (was Re: [HG] New to the list)
On 6/19/02 2:12 PM, Tobie Miller wrote:
> I have actually been considering both Olympic's Minstrel and Gotscy's
> 'Phönix' as possibilities. Does anyone else have experience with either of
> these instruments?
I bought my Minstrel as a travel gurdy after playing "Amazing Grace" at my
grandmother's funeral in San Diego (on a sailboat) with a tinwhistle -- not
only was it a bit shrill, but I discovered you can't play woodwinds too well
if you're crying!
Anyway, the Minstrel is small but well made and attractive. It's quieter
than larger gurdies that have more strings, but has a sweet sound and fully
functional dog. I sometimes use it at acoustic (i.e., no sound system)
performances like Renaissance fairs because it doesn't drown out my singing
voice.
Anna Peekstok
Seattle, WA
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 00:42:25 +0200
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: Re: My Minstrel (was Re: [HG] New to the list)
Message to Tobie Miller:
Please give me a message off-list to Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de
I have some news for you,
Thank you
Helmut
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 21:30:40 -0700
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] The best position for the chien?
Hello Bryan,
These are the measurements on a very responsive chien on a Pimpard
hurdy gurdy (in Bourbonnais tuning):
i) The vibrating length of the trompette string is 403.5 mm
ii)The distance between the side of the wheel and the chien is 60 mm
iii)The distance between the string at the notch of the chien and the
mouche bridge is 14 mm
iv) The height of the string above the soundboard where it passes
the chien is 9 mm
also although you did not ask for this:
v) distance between base of mouche bridge and notch in chien is 10 mm
Hope this helps.
All the best to you and Arlette
Juan
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 00:10:02 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Meeting at St. Chartier
Well it is that time of year again when those of us on the Hurdy Gurdy
list, that also are going to Saint Chartier get together.
Are we going to meet at the usual place? Maybe without rain?
How about meeting on the first day of the festival Thursday 11 July at
the Bar next to Espace Plus after the Concert by AR'H.
The concert starts at 17h and might be finished around 18h. Just in time
for food and drink.
r.t.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 05:01:35 EDT
From: Maxoubbn _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Meeting at St. Chartier
Hi !
Good idea r.t.
I'll be there, to welcome all the friends coming from over the oceans :
USA, Europe, Berry...
If someone needs some details about St Chartier, or travelling in France,
or things like that, if I can help, ask me !
And don't forget our secret way of shaking hands to recognize the real HG
players in our meeting at the Bar.
Maxou
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 08:58:30 -0300 (ART)
From: marcos kaiser mori <kaisermori _at_ yahoo.com.br>
Subject: Re: [HG] Meeting at St. Chartier
Hello! I am a beginner in this matter, but even not
knowing the secret hand shaking of the hg society I
would like to see you all. I am travelling from
hungary to St. Chartier, and will need all and any
kind of tip associated with low-cost travelling. I
will be camping there, and maybe trying to sell my HG.
Hope to see you soon.
Marcos
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 13:16:38 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Meeting at St. Chartier
For those of us still outside the "nudge nudge wink wink" section of this
list, is there a timetable sort of thing when HG meetings etc take place?
You know, a sort of "idiot's list" of what happens on a regular basis
through the year?
It would be nice to know to arrange holidays etc to fit in (don't tell my
wife) - "oh look, isn't that handy, there's a HG convention just around the
corner..........." :-D
Thanks
Colin Hill
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 08:51:21 -0700
From: Christina Wright <ccwright _at_ blackandwright.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Meeting at St. Chartier
Dear List,
Yes, let's meet at 6 p.m. (that's a translation for people like me)
outside the Espace Plus tent at the bar on Thursday.
Here's the deal. Once you buy your pass and get your wrist bracelet
attached, you are permitted to enter the festival grounds. They have moved
the entrance in the past year, BUT, if it's where it was last year, Espace
Plus is to your right as soon as you pass the checkpoint. Espace Plus is
the Extra Space concert venue. It's a huge white tent. Between the
checkpoint and the Big White Tent is a bar. It won't be terribly crowded
and we'll find each other easily. I once asked Maxou how I would find him
(before I had had the pleasure of meeting him) and he replied, "I'll be the
one with the beer in my hand."
Hints for Camping at St. Chartier:
1. Bring Wellies, Big Rubber Boots, whatever you call them. It always
rains at some point (if not always) and the mud is a challenge.
2. This is an American woman writing, but in the years I camped, I learned
to bring my own toilet paper. Keep it in your pocket wherever you go.
Colin, this is the only official meeting I know of and even then, it's
not very official. You are welcome to come to the Over the Water Festival
some year. Perhaps that serves as the Other Official but Not Very meeting.
In Seattle, we meet to play every month. You're welcome to join us.
Yours,
Chris Wright
PS Dave Holland, did you read this?
PPS Ruth, are you coming?
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 20:56:20 +0200
From: B&D Renaudin <d140557 _at_ club-internet.fr>
Subject: [HG] BOEUF CENTRE FRANCE A REIGNY (CHER) LE 29/06
Salut/Hi,
"Trad session" (= boeuf) de musique Centre France au bar "Le Perroquet"
de Reigny (sud du Cher, vers Culan) samedi prochain à 21h, musiciens
bienvenus (bouffe et boisson, je peux loger).
Ceci est en quelque sorte un dernier appel avant fermeture... les 2
précédents boeufs ayant été annulés faute de combattants....
Centre France music session in Reigny ( 30 km St Chartier) on the 29/06
21:00. Musicians welcome! (free food, drink, accomodation)
Contactez moi/contact me
;-)
Dominique Renaudin
http://perso.club-internet.fr/d140557/index.html
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 21:17:00 +0200
From: B&D Renaudin <d140557 _at_ club-internet.fr>
Subject: Re: [HG] BOEUF CENTRE FRANCE A REIGNY (CHER) LE 29/06
Hi everyone, especially RT Taylor and the "Clouds",
Precisions :
The bar is about 5 mn away from my place, 30 km from St Chartier (La
Châtre-Chateaumeillant-Culan-Reigny). Free dinner and drink, and
accomodation at my place (camping or inside). The place is extremely
well situated in a 250 inhabitants village.
http://www.cg18.fr/commune/reigny/frame.html
So, if you plan to be here well before St Chartier... you're welcome!
;-)
Dominique R
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 16:00:24 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] The best position for the chien?
Hi Bryan,
I think that you will find this measurement will vary somewhat by
personal preference. Hungarian tekerõs for instance tend to have
multiple mortises in a row that the dog can be inserted into so that
this length can be easily changed depending on the style and player
preference. I don't know that there is an "optimum" measurement in
this case. Probably your best bet it is to look over instruments that
you like and see if there is any commonality between them. What you
come up with might differ from what someone else likes.
That said, Juan's figures are probably pretty good as a basis to work from.
-Arle
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 22:14:55 +0100
From: Dave Holland <dave _at_ biff.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] Meeting at St. Chartier
On Sat, Jun 22, 2002 at 08:51:21AM -0700, Christina Wright wrote:
> Yes, let's meet at 6 p.m. (that's a translation for people like me)
> outside the Espace Plus tent at the bar on Thursday.
Sounds good to me.
> Here's the deal. Once you buy your pass and get your wrist bracelet
> attached, you are permitted to enter the festival grounds.
Quick question from someone who's never been before: should I be trying
to book a ticket/bracelet now (by phone (eek!) or on the web) or will
there definitely, absolutely, guaranteed-to-be tickets available on the
gate?
> PS Dave Holland, did you read this?
Yes. Thank you! I'll be driving over, via the Channel Tunnel, with my
wife and son. I hope they can find something to do while I am drooling
over hurdy-gurdies all day. :-)
See you there,
Dave
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 23:57:38 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Bryan TOLLEY <Bryan.Tolley _at_ wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: [HG] The best position for the chien=?
Hello Juan,
Thanks a lot for the measurements. I'll checks these out with what
I've got and see what I need to do. The new vielle's now varnished
and now being rubbed down and polished. It should be ready for Saint
Chartier in a couple of weeks time; I've had a stand for the past
couple of years.
I may well see you if you're up in Washington for the OTW festival.
I'm planning on visiting my son Matthew who lives not too far away
in Olympia. It seemed a shame to go all that way and not get the
dates to coincide!
Toodle pip
Bryan
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 10:10:57 EDT
From: Maxoubbn _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Meeting at St. Chartier
Dans un e-mail daté du 22/06/02 23:15:41 Paris, Madrid (heure d'été),
dave _at_ biff.org.uk a écrit :
Quick question from someone who's never been before: should I
be trying
to book a ticket/bracelet now (by phone (eek!) or on the web)
or will
there definitely, absolutely, guaranteed-to-be tickets
available on the
gate?
Before the June 26th the complete ticket costs 70 Euros. After, 80 Euros.
Try the web site : http://www.saintchartier.com/
You may wait at the office, but there are always tickets available.
Maxou
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 18:05:05 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: [HG] travelling to St. Chartier from east
Hallo Marcos and others,
I can offer a possible way to get to St.Chartier on a cheaper than
regular basis:
We travel from Vienna to Paris together by train, in a group - which is
cheaper than travelling allone:
3 persons 155,2/pers
4 persons 148,8/pers
5 persons 144,96/pers
(in euro; tour-retour)
Additional one has to buy train-tickets to and from Chateauroux and bus
and metro-tickets.
This is for example still cheaper than a regular train ticket from
Munich. So this is not very cheap travel but 'cheaper'. We start from
Vienna at the 06Iul02 20h20 and will be back in town on the 16Iun02
8h42.
So we are still looking for companions for our travelling-group, from
Austria or from southern Germany.
regards
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 18:20:20 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Meeting at St. Chartier
Hello,
Christina Wright:
> Hints for Camping at St. Chartier:
3. be prepared for any kind of weather from just above (4 - 5°C)
freezing temperature to very hot (35°C) without shade. So, bring some
sunblocker since you will stay outside without chance for cover for at
least five consecutive days;
4. Showers are cold.
5. bring a torch; a recording device for collecting tunes;
6. try to arrive without jet-lag or other kinds of sleep deficit and do
not plan intelectuall projects for the days after the festival: your
sleep deficit will be serious ;-)
regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 19:24:28 +0200
From: B&D Renaudin <d140557 _at_ club-internet.fr>
Subject: Re: [HG] Meeting at St. Chartier
Salut,
St Chartier new site :
http://www.saintchartier.org/
Changed from .com to .org ....
;-)
Dominique R
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 23:24:38 -0500
From: Rob McConnell <robrmcc _at_ mts.net>
Subject: [HG] The Homeopathy Did Me In!!!
To all HG posters:
After my previous ranting regarding hotel fires, several people have
encouraged me to stick it out on this list, but I am afraid I can't.
The post on Homeopathy just did me in.
Maybe I will check in in 6 months to see how things are going, right now
I just don't seem to have the patience. It is defintely time to take a
break.
Good luck to everyone, and thanks to Alden and Cali for maintaining the
list.
Rob McConnell
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 11:57:27 +0200
From: Reymen V <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [HG] The Homeopathy Did Me In!!!
About homeopathy: my daughter from 15 had severe reuma and thanks to some
homeopathic medicin and a good alopractic dokter she's ok now so please give it
a try but don't recognise a good dokter ...
About the list : I really can't understand why everybody makes so much noise
about...
It's only email ,so if you don't like it trow it away and don't read it ... it's
so easy
What is not ok for me is that people only look to themselfs and are angry about
everything else .....
If you like you may always contact me in or outside the list
Marc Reymen
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 13:00:55 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Not about HG: Against off topic mail. Was: Re: [HG] The
Homeopathy Did Me In!!!
Hello Reymen and all,
there are several reasons to undersatnd why one makes noise about off
topic mail:
1) if one is member of several mailing lists, or recieves a lot of mail
the task of sorting out irrelevant mail is not trivial.
2) Many people pay for their connection time and download-volume second
by second. With off topic mail they have to pay for mail they did not
expect when joining the list.
3) Off topic mails konsume a part of the usual mail writing capacity and
therefore have a negative influence on the output regarding the topic
(like this mail does ;-) )
4) People who insist on writing off topic mail show their unwillingness
to accept the rules applying to a list and their ignorance against those
who set up and or for whatever reason rely on these rules. This is a
matter of respect between the members of this list: Its not a simple
thing to deny the right of one or all listmembers to recive topic mail
only (and off topic content only rarely and being marked as OT) this
ignores personal rights of a person in a way that is quite near to
insult.
On the long term the neccessarity of this discussion creates a negative
athmosphere on the list which endangers the future of the list as a
usefull tool for the comunity of hurdy gurdy enthusiasts.
Again: not those who insist on accepting the rules are a negative
influence - those who argue against common rules are.
regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 06:32:34 -0700
From: Deborah L. White <gaidheal _at_ distantoaks.com>
Subject: Re: Not about HG: Against off topic mail. Was: Re: [HG] The
Homeopathy Did Me In!!!
Simon (and everyone),
> 3) Off topic mails konsume a part of the usual mail writing capacity and
> therefore have a negative influence on the output regarding the topic
> (like this mail does ;-) )
Since my post is the one that generated a couple of negative reactions
(including yours), I'll say my piece -- but I'll keep it as brief as
possible.
You'll note that I opened my *very* short message about homeopathy with
"Since we're totally off topic with this discussion anyway, I thought I'd
mention something about asthma here." If you'll recall, the thread to which
I responded was totally off-topic as well, and my little message was
prefaced with an apology of sorts to begin with. It was sent with the best
of intentions, i.e. offering a suggestion that might help someone who is
suffering and someone whose parents are going to great pains to help. If the
world of Internet mailing lists is so small that it can't allow for an
occasional, short, off-topic message that might help another human being,
then it's pretty damn small indeed.
I run a successful Internet mailing list myself -- and have done so for th
[[[missing post]]]
continued the thread must also think so).
Please let's not over-react but perhaps a suggestion - maybe an off-topic
answer (such as the asthma cure which was a sideline to the original message
and could have started a new thread) might be best sent direct to the person
concerned and not via the list?
now, ON TOPIC!
Please, reconsider if you feel like leaving. So many of you have such a
valuable contribution to make.
I want to remain on the list to learn all I can about the HG so that when I
actually get one, some of the mysteries will have been dispelled and I MIGHT
actually get a tune out of it. Your contributions to someone like me are so
important that, far from making me feel like giving up, I want one even
more.
Colin Hill
.
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:04:30 -0700
From: Deborah L. White <gaidheal _at_ distantoaks.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: Not all HG: some off topic mail.
Hi Colin,
> Isn't the care within our community just as important as the technical
> questions?
I would hope so. :-)
> I want to remain on the list to learn all I can about the HG so that when I
> actually get one, some of the mysteries will have been dispelled and I MIGHT
> actually get a tune out of it. Your contributions to someone like me are so
> important that, far from making me feel like giving up, I want one even
> more.
Yes, to get back on topic. I just got my first hurdy-gurdy recently. I
anticipated some difficulty with using a playing technique that I hadn't
previously used (I'm a fretted strings player), but when I actually got the
instrument, that wasn't the real difficulty. I found that I could get some
simple tunes going fairly easily -- but the cotton was another story! I
spent about twice as much time getting the instrument to play with a good,
strong tone, as I did actually playing tunes. It's obvious that anyone who
wants to play HG has to accept the fact that it's a very mechanical
instrument, and you have to spend some time fiddling with the mechanics of
it. I posted a message recently asking about the ins and outs of cotton, and
I received some good feedback on and off list. The most helpful suggestion
was to use less cotton on the chanterelles than on the other strings. I
tried this, and it worked much better. Like anything else, the early stages
of learning a new thing always present a challenge!
Deborah
----------------
Distant Oaks
Celtic & Early Music
http://www.distantoaks.com
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 10:27:33 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Time out!!!
OK, folks -
Enough is enough - once again, I'll remind everyone about the rules:
courteous disagreement is fine, flames are not. Some recent posts have
treaded or even overstepped that line. Put some water on them, or the
listmaster will take more serious action. Jim's and Laura's are now
moderated by me, as a condition of their continued membership. I don't want
to do this to anyone else. OK?
If one list member has an issue with another list member, the conversation
should occur OFF LIST. Got it?
I really hope that I don't need to say anything else about this. Play
nice, folks.
Alden
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Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 15:18:07 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: [HG] HGs and historical re-enactment
I, too, have been contemplating HGs and re-enactment. Every once in a while
a HG shows up at an SCA event here in the Pacific Northwest, and that makes
me happy even if it's not a model that's quite period appropriate.
My SCA persona is Norse (Viking) however, and I doubt there will ever be any
documentation showing that Vikings had HGs. I wish!
--JulieR
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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 13:33:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] HGs and historical re-enactment
--- JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com> wrote:
> My SCA persona is Norse (Viking) however, and I doubt there will ever
> be any
> documentation showing that Vikings had HGs. I wish!
>
> --JulieR
Well, as was mentioned recently, the Olympia Minstrel was based on a
medieval Swedish design.
There was an affinity for drone music as evidenced by the crwth
(crowd?) and a few other instruments that I probably can't spell.
Per Medieval re-enactment: According to the Broeker text we worked on a
couple of years ago, the symphonie was not as popular the guitar-shape.
Nobody ever knows what it is anyway, no matter what the period, so you
should be OK. <g>.
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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 23:11:25 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] HGs and historical re-enactment
Hello,
at least it would add some centuries to the history of hurdy gurdy if
the instruments viking origin is discovered - the nine centuries called
the middle age are not really a narrow slot of time :-) .
cheers,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 16:4:47 -0700
From: Joanne Andrus <joaand _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [HG] HGs and historical re-enactment
You should try to track down a copy of "Lirans hemligheter" by Per-Ulf
Allmo and Jan Winter. Unfortunately (for me, anyway) it's all in Swedish
except a final chapter, but it has lots of historical illustrations. The
final chapter in English is titled The hurdy-gurdy in the Nordic countries.
Joanne
--- Joanne Andrus
--- joaand _at_ earthlink.net
--- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 08:19:51 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: [HG] musicmaker gurdy
Hi list
Anybody knows what does "T-NUT" mean?
I've found this word reading the musicmaker gurdy
kit's instruction
A friend of mine wants to make a gurdy according to
musicmaker's plan (ok, I know....I should warn him :o)
but the instruction are not so clear to understand if
you can't look at the kit.
Thanks
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 07:57:28 +0100
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] musicmaker gurdy
Usually a round nut with a flange on it, perhaps not a whole circle though.
Usually used as an anchorage for something.
Thanks Marcello for reminding us all what this newsgroup is about!
George Swallow
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 00:31:31 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] musicmaker gurdy
Marcello,
>Anybody knows what does "T-NUT" mean?
>I've found this word reading the musicmaker gurdy
>kit's instruction
It's a device usually used in furniture making - it's kind of hard to
describe, but I'm sure you'll recognize it. Here: imagine a metal disc,
perhaps 25 mm in diameter. A depression is punched in the center,
resulting in a tube with a flange, and a hole at the end of the
tube. Threads are cut inside the tube with a tap. 4 cuts are made in the
flange, pointing not toward the center but around the edge, like a
pinwheel. The pointy ends that result from these cuts are bent down 90
degrees.
To use: drill a hole a little larger than the tube. Position the tip of
the tube in the hole. The pointy ends are resting on the surface of the
wood. Whack it with a big hammer several times. The pointy ends should
dig into the wood. Voila! You can now insert a threaded rod, bolt,
hurdy-gurdy shaft, or whatever else into the hole. It's particularly
useful for adjustable feet on office furniture and such: it's low cost, and
it's out of sight, so it doesn't matter that it's one of the ugliest pieces
of hardware ever introduced.
My particular beef with them in the HG context is that they're designed for
a situation where the weight of the desk or table will always be pushing it
into the wood, keeping it seated. In the HG, the stresses are different,
and unless it's REALLY whacked in very tightly (and not even then) it can
work its way loose, resulting in a wobbly shaft. Also, the threads are on
the loose side, so there's some play in the shaft/wheel connection to start
with.
>A friend of mine wants to make a gurdy according to
>musicmaker's plan (ok, I know....I should warn him :o)
Is your friend a masochist? ;-)
Alden
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:54:41 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: [HG] musicmaker gurdy
Thanks a lot to you all, now I realize what a T-NUT
is.
And do they really use them for hurdy-gurdy shaft
assembly?
Oh my God......
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 03:11:30 -0600
From: Kevin Oakeson <kevinoakeson _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Learning to play...
Hello,
My name is Kevin and I too have been lurking on the list for a few
weeks. I have a minor in Trumpet performance and I currently work as a
Theatrical Lighting Designer. I have been intrigued by the Hurdy Gurdy
for a LONG time and now I feel it's time to learn to play.
I am looking for a first time instrument on which to learn. I am hoping
to find a decent Hurdy Gurdy that is readily available while I wait for
a proper instrument to be built.
I am wondering from all those out there how bad, really, the Musicmakers
and/or Hughes chromatic completed kits are? My budget is around a
thousand dollars, and I want to start ASAP while I still have the spark
to learn. I have done a fair amount of research over the past year and
would like some opinions from those in the know. I'm not completely sold
on these companies and I would greatly appreciate any other ideas.
This list has been VERY helpful in learning about the instrument and the
culture surrounding. I VERY much respect and appreciate all views from
this group.
Thanks,
Kevin
kevinoakeson _at_ earthlink.net
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:20:35 +0300 (EEST)
From: ottilia _at_ saunalahti.fi
Subject: RE: [HG] HGs and historical re-enactment
The Swedish groddalira is from 17th century - and it was maybe made in
poland or germany and brought to island called Gotland, wehere it was
played for some decades.
Viking age and hg -hmm... the earliest documents of hg are from ca 1000
AD I suppose, and then the age was already over, academically speaking.
The life in Nordic countries went on as usual, not much changing after
viking this and that - christianity took over old religion etc. Trade
was anyway very active -as before- and musicians travelled with the
ships of salesmen. And maybe some hg-players too.
BTW:the earliest document about a hg in Finland is from ca. 1450: a
testament of noble man called Tavast: he was said to have had a
"symfonia".
BTW2: I'm writing this at a workshop: hungarian Balazs Nagy is having a
summer course in Finland, Haapajärvi and we are building symphonies -
mine was already in test-playing conditioin after 2 days work - of
course he has made the box ready and many parts are ready or half-ready.
And now
I have to get back to sandpaper the keys...
Yours,
Esa Mäkinen
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:56:30 +0300
From: N.I.M.S. <stumburs _at_ ihouse.lv>
Subject: RE: [HG] HGs and historical re-enactment
Hello, Esa!
Almost (not far) in the same region as Gotland is Latvia's part
Kurzeme(Couronia, Kurland). Ancient "kursi" people had contacts vith vikings
as cultural, trade and war, of course...But hurdu-gurdy there is mentioned
just in 16th and 18th centuries as German and Swedish musicians instrument.
Oter, do you know, how to got scandinavin music for HG? I hawe one HG, built
under Stockholm Musikmuseet drawings, but no music to play.
Peteris,
Latvia
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 12:31:25 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: [HG] hurdy gurdy translation into german
Hello,
just now I posted to a forum at http://dict.leo.org/ discussing
translation matters:
---
Entry:
hurdy-gurdy - die Drehleier
hurdy-gurdy - die Drehorgel - in Gebrauch, korrekt ist aber Drehleier
(this is the actual entry, Drehorgel = barrelorgan; the second line of
the entry translated into english: hurdy-gurdy - barrelorgan - in use,
but hurdy-gurdy='Drehleier' is correct)
Example:
The classical example are two song titles:
Donovans song: 'The hurdy gurdy man' about a barrel-organ player: a
correct translation into german should be 'Der Leiermann' which is the
equally ambigous term for a barrelorgan-player
Schuberts song: 'Der Leiermann' about a hurdy-gurdy player which is
definitely a 'Drehleierspieler' *not* a 'Drehorgelspieler'.
Comment:
'hurdy gurdy' is sometimes used meaning 'drehorgel' it is ambigous and
may in these cases be translated as 'Leierkasten' which is the
comparably ambigous term in german. So 'Drehorgel - in Gebrauch, korrekt
ist aber Drehleier' is not entirely correct: in some cases the correct
translation is 'Leierkasten' or maybe even 'Drehorgel'.
I would translate it into
*'Drehleier' in all cases where the context indicates so: mentioning of
strings, keys, ability to play music, source before ~1820, later source
from France, Hungary, Savoyards ... into
*'Leierkasten' in all cases which are ambigous and into
*'Drehorgel' in cases where the context clearly indicates a
barrel-organ. notice that before the 1820 (about) there were no
barrel-organs used by street musicans, but 'Drehleier' was a very
popular instrument Europewide, often abrevated to 'Leier', 'Leyer'
---
regards
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 06:37:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] musicmaker gurdy
--- Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net> wrote:
>
> My particular beef with them in the HG context is that ... it
> can
> work its way loose, resulting in a wobbly shaft. Also, the threads
> are on
> the loose side, so there's some play in the shaft/wheel connection to
start with.
There is a type of T-nut that has three tiny screw-holes. AFAIK the
flanges are never perfectly square with the tube, so you still have to
whack them a bit and play with the tension on the various screws. I
have filled the threads with various glues and retapped, but you get
equally good results with plumber's tape.
I was under the delusion at the time that HG was some kind of folk
instrument and that sort of solution was appropriate. Now that I'm
playing a real one, I have gotten more persnickity.
Later, Roy T.
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 15:00:31 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] musicmaker gurdy
Rather than filling and retapping, have you tried strong epoxy resin and,
just before it sets, using the thread you are going to insert to recut the
thread (vaseline on it first or it won't come out!). It works quite well in
other applications where plumber's tape loosens over time and may here (no
guarantees though - never used it for this!).
This must be the only instrument that requires degrees in plumbing,
metalworking, carpentry and advanced physics to play - no on second thought
perhaps not) :o)
Colin Hill
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:21:41 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Learning to play...
Kevin-
There have been some recent postings which could apply to your
situation. There are some reputable makers who can provide good quality
instruments at or near your stated budget. The Hackmanns have a nice basic
chromatic model, the Minstrel; I also believe that Helmut Gotschy has a
similarly basic model which, although I've never seen or heard myself, has
been spoken well of. There are probably others lurking right here on the
list as well...
~ Matt
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:10:44 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Learning to play...
For those of us that missed/deleted/forgot if it has already been done, is
there any chance someone could post the website addresses of these makers? -
or is there a list somewhere I don't know about. It would be a real help for
those of us waiting to make a purchase - is it allowed?
Colin Hill
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 08:26:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Learning to play...
Our website is www.hurdygurdy.com
Helmut's is www.gotschy.com
We compiled a listing of HG builders and dealers on the website:
www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/makers.html
Some of the listings aren't current, because the website upgrade hasn't
gotten that far yet.
Alden F.M. Hackmann darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:54:46 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Learning to play...
Oh that's great. Thanks very much. I have a good idea now of what I am
aiming and saving for! (Still a long way to though....sigh)
Colin Hill
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 13:00:49 -0400
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] The best position for the chien?
Hi Bryan-
Perhaps it's a bit late for this reply, but what the heck.
Arle is right, of course; personal preference of the player can decide some
of these dimensions. Personal preference of the maker will decide
others. Just for comparison to Juan's Pimpard, here are similar dimensions
of my own hurdy-gurdy (it's G/C, with the trompette tuned to D or C), which
I find is very responsive in both short, quick buzzes and longer coup
gras-style playing as well:
1. Vibrating length of string: 405mm
2. Length between side of wheel (facing chien) and chien: 52mm
3. Distance between the string at the notch on the chien and the vertical
face of the mouche bridge: by this I assume you mean the measurement
between the pivot point of the chien and the vertical plane on which the
string lies; the measurement being taken "flat" on the soundboard (Juan's
measurement "v" below): approx 7.5mm
4. String height over chien: approx 8mm
The distance between the chien and the anchored end near the crank on my
hurdy-gurdy is only 80mm, probably quite a bit shorter than that of Juan's
Pimpard. I find the best position of the tirant (trompette string) to be
about 30mm from the chien on this particular instrument.
Interestingly, I find this hurdy-gurdy to be very responsive and easy to
buzz, yet there are others who have trouble with it - it has very little
turning resistance, even with many strings playing. It takes a subtle hand
to produce the full range of buzzing effects. And I've played other
instruments which the owners can buzz just fine, but I have trouble
with. So it really does vary between instruments and players.
Hope this helps!
~ Matt
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 10:29:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] musicmaker gurdy
Colin said:
> This must be the only instrument that requires degrees in plumbing,
> metalworking, carpentry and advanced physics to play - no on second thought
> perhaps not) :o)
A few years ago we visited the workshop of a builder of tracker organs.
I think they've got us beaten, but not by much ;-)
We also need to include geometry, and most people would be more
appreciative of the instruments if we include some training in art.
There's an interesting book by Kevin Coates titled "Geometry, proportion,
and the art of lutherie", subtitled "A study of the use and aesthetic
significance of geometry and numerical proportion in the design of
European bowed and plucked string instruments in the sixteenth,
seventeenth and eighteenth centuries". (Oxford : Clarendon Press, 1985)
I think the subtitle pretty much sums up the work. If I had a time
machine, I'd love to take a copy of the book back to the luthiers who
built the instruments and see if they really used all the complex
calculations that Coates goes through, or whether they just drew something
that looked nice. ;-)
Alden
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 11:19:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Learning to play...
Welcome, Kevin -
> I am wondering from all those out there how bad, really, the Musicmakers
> and/or Hughes chromatic completed kits are? My budget is around a
> thousand dollars, and I want to start ASAP while I still have the spark
> to learn. I have done a fair amount of research over the past year and
> would like some opinions from those in the know. I'm not completely sold
> on these companies and I would greatly appreciate any other ideas.
In all fairness, I can't recommend these instruments at all. Jerry Brown
and the folks at Musicmakers are nice people, and they mean well, but the
instrument really isn't worth the money. Hughes is worse - not even
really worth discussing.
I used to try to be diplomatic about these instruments, until I realized
that one of my missions in life is to save the world from bad HG's. ;-)
Their faults include:
- they're diatonic, which is fine in some situations, but not what I'm
looking for
- they have no trompette
- the handle is tiny, so you have to bend your wrist and grip with your
fingertips
- the bridge is not supported
- no adjustable nuts
- scale length is way too long, so if you learn on it, you have to relearn
later when you get a "standard" HG
- the wheels wobble and bob, requiring major scraping, and the veneer is
very thin, so there's not much room to scrap
- the bearings are non-existent, just holes in the wood, so it's
impossible to really true the wheel
- the key spacing is incorrect
There are more, these are just the high points.
OK, I feel better now.
Alden
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:53:52 -0400
From: Beverly Woods <tradmusic _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Learning to play...
Hi Kevin,
A few years ago I was where you are now, and I took every opportunity to
look at kit instruments, etc, while getting the same type of advice from
experienced players that others are now giving you. To make a long story
short, I know of no inexpensive instruments worth trying to play. A store
may say they have a hurdy gurdy, but what you find when you get there and
try to play it is that it is only an OVRAHG (Object Vaguely Resembling A
Hurdy Gurdy.) The difference between such items and a playable instrument is
considerable. OVRAHGs make very expensive wall decorations.
I know it's hard to wait, but I think you're better off saving your
pennies and plunking them down for a genuine playable wonderful instrument,
say, from the Hackmans or Matt Szostak or another builder of your choice. I
have one that Matt built, and have not for a second regretted waiting for
the real thing.
Come to think of it, I did distract myself while I was waiting for my
hurdy gurdy, with an instrument in the price range you mention...but it was
a nyckelharpa. Rather similar to the hurdy gurdy in some ways, except it has
a bow instead of a wheel, no trompette, and all the fingering is upside down
and backwards compared to the hurdy gurdy. Other than that, it could perhaps
be considered a form of preparation. ;-)
Beverly
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 20:24:05 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Learning to play...
On the subject of cost, has anyone actually built Dennis Havlena's
do-it-yourself HG (on http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/havlena.html ) and if so,
was it playable and did it really cost under $20????
Just curious (and tempted for a first taste).
Colin Hill
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 14:57:21 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: RE: [HG] Learning to play.../trompette or not trompette
Hello list-
i have one other post after this on a different topic, and I'll send it
later. But i did want to pose one question:
My primary interest in HGs was started by, and continues to be fueled by,
the timbric quality of the 5, 6 or however many strings in their different
harmonic, melodic variations and doing their viscerally satisfying droney
contrapuntal thing. Basically, i got hooked by the sound of the instrument
'en musette'--it might be some kind of weird antional bias--the galician and
ukrainian instruments, as well as the sinfonie--are currently found with no
trompette (the sinf. through speculation, the former two by tradition. the
trompette was, for me, a sound very much to be acquired, rather than an
immediate clincher. I am still trying to get to the point where it grabs me
as much as the sound of 'en musette'...Granted, there are situations where
the trompette comes in way handy: viz., the rearticulation of repeated 8th
notes or shorter values at most tempi is certainly easier by using a
trompette to accent them instead of restriking--but nonetheless, some
questions...
1. why did the trompette get to be such a prevalent feature on HGs, and why
is it emphasized so?
2. Granted, it is very challenging to learn, but i wonder if there is not a
type of a trompette 'litmus test' among players--one might not play with
trompette, or might not like it as much, but not matter how stellar one's LH
technique, if you can't/won't use the trompette, c'est ne coupe pas la
moutarde, as they say in NJ. I mean this jovially, of course, but is this
perhaps due to how prevalent the instrument is in French folk music, and
that the trompette is traditional in that repertoire? This may hold the
answer to both ques. 1 and 2.
3. Does anyone else like the musette sound more than the trompette, even by
just a teensy weensy bit? or does everyone just take them as pasrt of the
same package? if so, then again, why the great(er) emphasis on
trompette/coup techinique?
Well, hope you all know that this is all to be taken heavily salted. ;^) one
of my upcoming instruments will have a chien, so I certainly am not averse
to it at all--that's why I am very grateful to all of you for your posts
about the chien position. Look out for message #2! (promises to be shorter.)
best wishes,
Vlad
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:16:45 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Learning to play.../trompette or not trompette
For someone who doesn't play I suppose I am not qualified to give an answer
but, when listening, I liken the use of the trompette to the use of the
regulators on Irish pipes. To me, used well and sparingly, they add a lot of
passion and excitement to the music. A tune played well suddenly bursts out
with this wonderful rhythmic sound and puts a whole new side to the tune.
What do you players think - little or often. I would be most interested in
how much you use it (I am making the presumption that you can "not" play the
trompette by slowing the wheel - I think I'm learning).:o))
Colin
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 15:33:53 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: [HG] history of HG/sinfonie-accompanied singing on the iberian
peninsu la (LONGish message)
Hello again--
now that we've had a little chuckle about my idiosyncratic HG sound tastes,
I did want to post a more academically-oriented question:
Preliminary info:
----------------
I am doing some research on this rather large hole that exists on singing
accompanied by HG on the iberian peninsula(aka: zanfona/sinfonia during
these times). there are two parts to the chronology that we can already
speak of a little more surely: the mid 19th c until the early 20th (with a
break and then from the 70s iberian folk revival after Franco to the
present), which is documented in certain sources, mostly ethnomusicological;
and the period between the 10c or so (after Odo of Cluny's "quomodo
organistrum construatur"--the first HG how-to-build guide in the European
trad!!!) until the last mentions/illuminations of sinfonias playing at the
court of Alfonso X, per the ms. of his Cantigas de S.M. This means about
450-500 years of HG netherworld as far as the iberian peninsula is
concerned. or does it? although the HG may not have a contiguous development
from about 1450-1820 in Spain or Portugal, and the instruments played after
this later date are relatives of the french guitar body instruments (note
that lutebacks are virtually unseen in Spain until the last several
decades!), could the instruments just have been modern stand-ins for a
tradition that did have a continuum of practice? regarding my last post--the
tromppette issue--why, if the Spanish instruments are modeled after French
guitar body HGs, do they not have a trompette? instead, the chanters are
increased to 3 and the drones reduced to 2 in most cases, the trompette
dropped, and the guitar body--a chamber music instrument--is preferred over
the louder, more outdoor-music folk instrument that is the luteback. many of
these things point to a tradition that wanted to emphasize the use of the HG
as an instrument to accompany song, rather than to perform folk dances.
(they already had the gaita for this!) So i am proposing to find the
possible links that may have unified the self-accompanied song tradition
enough to be able to recuperate the use of the HG as the self-accompanying
instrument, even after a hiatus of several centuries. a succesful conserving
of this type of tradition can be seen with the Ukrainian lirnyky phenomenon
(there i go again with that cultural thing!), where the lirnyky were
itinerant lira (HG) players who performed epic songs (known as 'dumy',
literally, 'thoughts') regarding the exploits of tribal chieftains, Cossack
hetmans or other equally unsavory, bloody and violent characters.
because of the guilds which they formed and in which they maintained the
integrity of their methodology and repertoire, they have been able to
conserve a great part of their historical performance tradition.
I am therefore proposing to try to fill this hole, of sorts, that exists
with what I feel may be a similar tradition of self-accompanied song in
Spain as regards the HG.
---------
Questions:
So, I am asking for any assistance you might have with the following:
1. What records do we have of HG performed in any settings: courtly,
ecclesiastically, out in the middle of the village square--wherever--either
in illustrations, text manuscripts or other narratives, but on the iberian
peninsula? This is a specific but i suspect hard to fulfil request!
2. Perhaps only somewhat more easy, what records exist of performances (in
public or court) of epic poems popular on the iberian peninsula--el cid,
different chanson de geste, things from the cancioneros, etc? these may
include records of what was performed, or sometimes, who was paid for
performing what.
3. and, finally, what sources exist that discuss this trompette issue--and
any of the other construction issues--that affected the changes to the
Iberian instrument vis a vis the French or other European counterparts.
(note that the ukrainian instrument has no trompette either, as i mentioned
in my earlier email about trompette or not trompette; but is like a
tekero"lant in most other respects, just a little smaller. (usually in G
instead of A)
Thanks to all who have, for reading through this. If you have any info at
all that you think might be of assistance, or references or places where you
think i might be wise to look, ALL is greatly appreciated. Many many thanks
in advance!
Vlad
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 15:45:51 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: RE: [HG] Learning to play.../trompette or not trompette
Hello Colin-
perhaps the best way of describing the way to play/not play trompette is
best described as maintaining the wheel speed constant, which is easier to
do on the slow end. the trompette is activated, so to speak, when the wheel
speed changes dynamically, and the character of the speed increase dictates
the chracter of the 'buzz'. of course, the first thing that has to be done
is that the trompette regulating device--either a peg with a little gut loop
that pulls on the bridge-side (more accurately, the chien-side) of the
trompette string, or, in the case of the tekero"lant or other HGs, there is
a lever that, by sliding it back and forth, does the same as the
peg-and-loop device: it regulates the tension of the chien's little hammer
against the belly of the instrument. if it is very tight against the belly,
the chien will not, or only barely, get activated by a wheel speed change;
with a looser adjustment, the cien will sound more and more easily. as such,
it regulates the colume of the buzz to a certain degree. is this a decent
wording of it, list-fellows? sometimes as players we have our minds more in
the "how do i do it" rather than the "how do i say it", so...
cheers,
Vlad
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:49:07 -0400
From: zhenya <zhenya _at_ prexar.com>
Subject: [HG] Hurdy Gurdy playing
Hi,
I was wondering why the Hurdy Gurdy seemed much more popular in the late
1800? I have read many books that Jim has and they show wonderful pictures
of children playing and playing on the streets, I just wonder why it did not
grow over the years?? The pictures that I see now are not really of children
any more? I wondered if you know why this is?
Thanks
Laura Winters
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:25:23 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] history of HG/sinfonie-accompanied singing on the iberian
peninsula (LONGish message)
Hello,
"Smishkewych, Wolodymyr":
> (...)
> the louder, more outdoor-music folk instrument that is the luteback.
as far as I see it there is no evidence that the luteback is louder. It
has a certain sound characteristic and supports the high pitched
melody-strings used well (and it is not older than 1700). In parts of
Brittany there is a tradition to play bombarde (which is *very* loud)
together with a guitar shaped hurdy-gurdy (which in many cases was build
in central france by makers who also produced lutebacks for their local
market).
> as an instrument to accompany song, rather than to perform folk dances.
> (they already had the gaita for this!)
In several parts of europe bagpipes and hurdy-gurdy exist paralell to
each other both serving as dance music instruments. There are also
traditions where bagpipes are used to accompany singing.
What I want to say: be carefull to avoid simplification when developing
the basis of your theory.
> possible links that may have unified the self-accompanied song tradition
> enough to be able to recuperate the use of the HG as the self-accompanying
> instrument, even after a hiatus of several centuries.(...)
> (...)
> (note that the ukrainian instrument has no trompette either, as i mentioned
> in my earlier email about trompette or not trompette; but is like a
> tekero"lant in most other respects, just a little smaller. (usually in G
> instead of A)
today here in Austria and in southern Germany the hurdy-gurdy is used to
accompanying singing a lot, maybe mor frequently than for playing dance
tunes ... and it is usually 'guitar'-shaped, smaller than the 'tekero'
and has a loud trompette.
There is also local evidence for guitar shaped HG used as a dance-music
instrument in the eighteenth century (in some weeks I may have one or
the other picture online).
sorry for not being able to supply info about the iberian peninsula.
regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 16:45:09 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: RE: [HG] history of HG/sinfonie-accompanied singing on the iberian
peninsula (LONGish message)
Thank you Simon, for your information--the notes about the gurdy being used
in Germany and Austria for singing accompaniment, and having a trompette,
may be useful--what is the role of the trompette in this case, I wonder?
the oversimplification i made regarding the gaita/zanfona is actually based
in the situation that Faustino Santalices, who was largely the driving force
behind the revival of the zanfona and many other folk instruments in Galicia,
was one of the few documented cases of a 'zanfoneiro' playing dances on the
hurdy gurdy--even until very recently, this has been the exception rather
than the rule in Galicia (i, myself, like the idea very much, so much that
i advocate & practice the playing of trad Galician & Asturian dances
on the zanfona; so does Rafa Martin, of the group 'La Bruja Gata' from Madrid).
The tradition of playing outdoor/loud music on the gaita has been fairly contiguous
in Galicia and other regions for a long time; singing with gaita is rarer, but not
unheard of.
Also, I understand your point about the volume of lutebacks not being necessarily
louder than guitar (or the converse; guitarbacks being just as loud as lutebacks);
my source was Robert Green's HG in France in the 18th c (IU Press, 1995); he mentions
the guitarback as being the 'instrument of preference' for chamber music. Also, the
prevalence of lutebacks in French outdoor-performing HG ensembles, like in Berry, etc.
perhaps just geographical idiosyncracies. I agree, there would be no distinction
neccessarily, although acoustically the guitar body is perhaps more adept at
amplifying the lower frequencies, giving a strong drone support, something the
galician trad might have preferred when increasing the chanters to 3 and removing
2 drone strings.
thanks, though for your input--any of it is much appreciated, even if it is not
directly related to the iberian peninsula, i can extrapolate much.
best,
Vlad
Anyhow, thanks for the advice; I will use it peripherally & in developing the research, but
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:56:51 -0700
From: Anna Peekstok <apeekstok _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Learning to play...
On 6/26/02 8:10 AM, Colin Hill wrote:
> For those of us that missed/deleted/forgot if it has already been done, is
> there any chance someone could post the website addresses of these makers? -
There's a list of HG builders on the Over the Water links page:
http://www.overthewater.org/links.html
I try to keep these links current, and would be glad of any additions or
updates to it.
Cheers,
Anna Peekstok
Seattle WA
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:27:54 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] HGs and historical re-enactment
Found it! :)
http://www.algonet.se/~per-ulf/katalog/index.html
--Julie
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joanne Andrus
> Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 4:01 PM
> Subject: RE: [HG] HGs and historical re-enactment
>
>
> You should try to track down a copy of "Lirans hemligheter" by Per-Ulf
> Allmo and Jan Winter. Unfortunately (for me, anyway) it's all in Swedish
> except a final chapter, but it has lots of historical illustrations. The
> final chapter in English is titled The hurdy-gurdy in the Nordic
> countries.
>
> Joanne
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:32:47 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] HGs and historical re-enactment
Esa said:
> BTW2: I'm writing this at a workshop: hungarian Balazs Nagy is having a
> summer course in Finland, Haapajärvi and we are building symphonies -
> mine was already in test-playing conditioin after 2 days work - of
> course he has made the box ready and many parts are ready or half-ready.
> And now
> I have to get back to sandpaper the keys...
I'm very jealous, Esa. :)
--Julie
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 07:44:23 +0100
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] musicmaker gurdy
Alden
I recognise the horrible device you describe, but here in the UK at least it
is used only on the most cheapjack of furniture. Unfortunately, the pressure
isn't usually axial, as the castors (little wheels) on the furniture are
offset so that they follow the pushing direction, and the weight on them
soonerror later destroys the whole assembly beyond repair . Ugh! I cannot
imagine that one could figure in a hg wheel. The tube you mention would be
too long and there is not enough precision in the tube diameter to prevent
wobble on the wheel if that's where it is used.
The T-nut on the hg that I have is one made from a 18mm piece of half-inch
brass rod, threaded through 5/16"BSW and hard-soldered to a 30mm x 3mm brass
disc ,skimmed true on the shaft itself before fixing the wheel to it and
then again with the wheel in place. The result is that it can be removed and
always goes back in the same position. I am sure this must be the standard
method as it is so obvious.
Could we hear from someone who has actually made this kit? I can hardly
believe it.
George Swallow
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:49:21 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: RE: [HG] Learning to play.../trompette or not trompette
--- "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr"
<wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>wrote:
> 1. why did the trompette get to be such a prevalent
> feature on HGs, and why
> is it emphasized so?
>
> 2. Granted, it is very challenging to learn, but i
> wonder if there is not a
> type of a trompette 'litmus test' among players--one
> might not play with
> trompette, or might not like it as much, but not
> matter how stellar one's LH
> technique, if you can't/won't use the trompette,
> c'est ne coupe pas la
> moutarde, as they say in NJ. I mean this jovially,
> of course, but is this
> perhaps due to how prevalent the instrument is in
> French folk music, and
> that the trompette is traditional in that
> repertoire?
I think it's because of repertoire.
I am (or I was...) a baroque HG player and in my mind
the "left hand part" is always the most important,
while the trompette is mostly used as "expression", if
you know what I mean.
Moreover, I often play "en musette" because I like it
(and several 18th century HG method are on my side...)
Of course the trompette is somewhat a must for dance
music, while "en musette" fit well the
singing....sometimes you can use trompette AND/OR left
hand in order to express the same feeling...more you
can do, more you can express...
Why the pianos has got 88 keys?...:o)
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:04:32 +0200
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] Learning to play.../trompette or not trompette
Hello Vlad,
to your question why HGs have a trompette:
A a gurdy whithout a trompette makes as much sense like a Fender strat
without amp, you can play everything on it, but it is no Rock and Roll!
Helmut
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 13:58:32 +0200
From: Reymen V <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: [HG] (geen onderwerp)
Hello,
Something positive and on topic this time:
Are there people on the list who want to make their own HG but who want
some help on that ?
I' m prepared to help via email, telephone, or just live in Antwerp.
please let me now something if interested of list !!! via
reymen _at_ pandora.be
Marc
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Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:36:43 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] From Beatrice
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 08:36:22 +0200 (MEST)
From: Beatrice Richrath <Beatrice.Richrath _at_ gmx.at>
Hello, friends,
does anybody know s.th. about the historical costumes of hg-players during
baroque period when hg-playing was common at the european courts?
We are going to construct baroque hurdy-gurdys this summer and would like to
have the costumes for it, too.
Thanks!
Béatrice, Vienna, Austria
--
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:39:55 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] From Uwe
>Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 09:55:41 +0200
>From: Uwe Jendricke <jendricke _at_ iig.uni-freiburg.de>
>Subject: Workshop in England, 31 Aug/1 Sept
>
>Hi,
>
>there will be a workshop weekend on Sat 31 Aug/Sun 1 Sept in Haddenham,
>near Ely, Cambridgeshire, England. There will be 4 workshops, each
>running from 10.00 until 17.00, all taking place in different rooms in
>the village hall complex. The workshops will be GC Hurdy Gurdy (tutor
>Mike Gilpin); DG Hurdy Gurdy (tutor Chris Allen); G Bagpipes (tutor
>Ferris Jay); Guitar, including G and C modal tunings (tutor Tony House).
>The HG and Bagpipe workshops will be aimed at beginners but this will be
>adapted to suit whoever is on the course. The whole weekend will cost
>£25 (including tea/coffee/biscuits). There are plenty of places in the
>village from which to buy food, including a very good pub which is
>almost opposite the hall. A list of Bed and Breakfast accommodation and
>a local campsite can be supplied on request. There is very limited
>camping space available in a garden (5 minutes walk from the hall) -
>room for 4 tents. Further details available from Ruth Bramley, (+44)
>1353 740999 or e-mail: ruthbramley _at_ btinternet.com
><mailto:ruthbramley _at_ btinternet
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 14:47:38 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] From Dennis Sherman
>Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 11:51:25 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Dennis Sherman <dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org>
>Subject: viola de teclas ?
>Anyone know if "viola de teclas" is Spanish for
>hurdy-gurdy? I know zanfona, but this is apparently
>something different.
>
>I just got a CD which has liner notes in Spanish and
>English that list both zanfona and viola de teclas,
>sometimes on the same piece. They're translated as
>"hurdy-gurdy" and "viol with keys", respectively.
>There's one piece that lists only the viola de teclas
>among the instruments playing, and it sure sounds like
>a string drone underneath it all.
>
>The CD, by the way, is "Tres Culturas : Judios,
>Cristianos, y Musulmanes en la Edad Media", PN100 on
>the Pneuma lable. See
>http://www.ctv.es/USERS/pneuma/spain.htm for more
>information, in Spanish and English. There's some
>really great stuff here...
>
>=====
>--
>Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
>dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 15:17:16 -0700
From: Anna Peekstok <apeekstok _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] From Dennis Sherman
I'm not familiar with the term, the "viola de teclas" may be a nyckelharpa,
a Scandinavian instrument with keys and tangents similar to those used on a
HG but with strings sounded by a bow (see http://www.nyckelharpa.org/).
There is a drone string on the "standard" harpa that's just an open C with
no keys, and they are often also played with double stops that give a drone
effect.
Cheers,
Anna Peekstok
Seattle WA
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 15:21:34 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Learning to play.../trompette or not trompette
Helmut,
>to your question why HGs have a trompette:
>A a gurdy whithout a trompette makes as much sense like a Fender strat
>without amp, you can play everything on it, but it is no Rock and Roll
ROTFL! This goes on the board in the shop as "Quote of the Week"!
Alden
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 19:23:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Sherman <dennis_sherman _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: viola de teclas ( was Re: [HG] From Dennis Sherman )
--- Anna Peekstok <apeekstok _at_ attbi.com> wrote:
> I'm not familiar with the term, the "viola de
> teclas" may be a nyckelharpa,
> a Scandinavian instrument with keys and tangents
> similar to those used on a
> HG but with strings sounded by a bow (see
> http://www.nyckelharpa.org/).
I'm know about the nyckelharpa, and I think it is
unlikely to be what I'm hearing. The CD is medieval
music from the Iberian peninsula. Most of the
instruments listed I'm familiar with, and they're all
things that would be found in Spain. I'm not sure
nyckelharpa qualifies...
The liner notes have pictures, and I don't see
anything that looks like a nyckelharpa, but I do see a
flat back hurdy gurdy. I haven't seen a box style
(symphony) hurdy gurdy in the pictures, but it might
be there.
Didn't someone describe it as a hurdy-gurdy, except
played with a bow, and upside down and backwards? :-)
Any other ideas what viola de teclas is?
=====
--
Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 19:23:43 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] musicmaker gurdy
> Ugh! I cannot
>imagine that one could figure in a hg wheel. The tube you mention would be
>too long and there is not enough precision in the tube diameter to prevent
>wobble on the wheel if that's where it is used.
Yup.
>The T-nut on the hg that I have is one made from a 18mm piece of half-inch
>brass rod, threaded through 5/16"BSW and hard-soldered to a 30mm x 3mm brass
>disc ,skimmed true on the shaft itself before fixing the wheel to it and
>then again with the wheel in place. The result is that it can be removed and
>always goes back in the same position. I am sure this must be the standard
>method as it is so obvious.
Much more sensible. However, did we mention that the shaft is not precision
steel stock, and that the bearings consist of a hole through the tail block
and a hole through the first brace? Yes, the first brace - the wheel and
shaft hang in space, not supported on the head side of the hole.
>Could we hear from someone who has actually made this kit? I can hardly
>believe it.
It is rather hard to believe...
Alden
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 00:11:31 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
Hello again,
'Viola de teclas' is ostensibly a synonym for HG, indeed. Similar etymology
exists for the instrument in Catalunya, where it is referred to as 'viola de
roda'--and so identifying our beloved by its other main distinguishing
feature, the wheel. In Portugal, incidentally, the HG is also referred to by
this name, except that it is 'viola DA roda', but that's just the grammar of
the language. Anyhow, the long life of the viola da gamba and the vihuela on
the peninsula (especially the latter) lent popularity to referring to
instruments of this type (however distantly related, tho). E.g., V da G were
often referred to in Spain as 'vihuela de arco,' and the vihuela was (only
occasionally) referred to as the 'viola de mano', but more commonly the
'vihuela de mano'.
As for the trompette issue, I know deep in my heart that some day I shall be
vindicated about this en musette thing. ;^)
Any more ideas on the previous question, RE: HG on the iberia
[[missing]]
have pictures, and I don't see
anything that looks like a nyckelharpa, but I do see a
flat back hurdy gurdy. I haven't seen a box style
(symphony) hurdy gurdy in the pictures, but it might
be there.
Didn't someone describe it as a hurdy-gurdy, except
played with a bow, and upside down and backwards? :-)
Any other ideas what viola de teclas is?
=====
--
Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 22:20:43 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [HG] From Beatrice
Hi Beatrice ,
There is a large source of info about Louis XV era costumes if you look
for " F&I war reenactment " ( French and Indian war for Americans is
" the seven years war " for the rest of us <g>)
One simple warning is : "avoid leather" belts should be of textile
material , if you could afford shoes made of other stuff than leather
it would also be very fashionable . Avoid striped socks also .
Henry
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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:23:05 +0200 (MEST)
From: beatrice.richrath _at_ gmx.de
Subject: Re: [HG] From Beatrice
Salut, Henry,
thank you for your quick response. Do you know any link or museum which I
could use as a source?
Merci!
Béatrice
--
GMX - Die Kommunikationsplattform im Internet.
http://www.gmx.net
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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 02:39:11 EDT
From: Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com
Subject: [HG] re: nyckleharpas
Anyone know where I could buy a decent nyckleharpa?
Sorry, OT again...
Felicia.
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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 11:04:20 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] re: nyckleharpas
Hello Felicia,
Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com:
>
> Anyone know where I could buy a decent nyckleharpa?
nyckelharpa mailing list
http://www.onelist.com/group/nyckelharpa
SCAND - scandinavian music mailing list
"SCAND is for those interested in Scandinavian folk music, folk
dance and related
traditional arts."
http://www.onelist.com/group/scand
I am sure its easy to find nyckelharpa makers via some decent search
engine too.
regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 06:36:06 -0400
From: Allan Janus <allan.janus _at_ verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] From Beatrice
Here's a good page of 18th c. costume links:
http://www.costumes.org/pages/18thlinks.htm
Allan Janus
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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:05:55 -0400
From: Timothy S. Hall <hallt _at_ louisville.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] re: nyckleharpas
Start at http://www.nyckelharpa.org (information), and also visit
http://www.nyckelharpa.com (sales)
Tim Hall
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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 07:20:03 -0700
From: Pat Nelson <pjs3ds _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] viola da roda
Hi list,
I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about the history of the "viola da
roda" in Brazil. Is there any Brazilian recorded music with a hurdy gurdy?
I'm especially interested in samba. I know Pierre Imbert recorded some
samba featuring hurdy gurdy - it was terrific!
Pat
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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 15:45:18 -0300 (ART)
From: marcos kaiser mori <kaisermori _at_ yahoo.com.br>
Subject: Re: [HG] viola da roda
Hi. I wrote a little bit about this. The viola de
roda, or viela de roda was a descendant of the now
extinguished portuguese hg. The only surviving sources
are paintings, althoug it was still played in the
countryside of Minas Geraes until the first half of
the XXcentury. The construction was very poor, but
interesting. Together with the carved lute, the
barroque guitar and drums, it may have sounded
well....
Marcos
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Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 11:57:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Sherman <dennis_sherman _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
--- "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> 'Viola de teclas' is ostensibly a synonym for HG,
> indeed. Similar etymology
> exists for the instrument in Catalunya, where it is
> referred to as 'viola de
> roda'--and so identifying our beloved by its other
> main distinguishing
> feature, the wheel. In Portugal, incidentally, the
Thanks for the information. Using it, and Google,
I've run across a really interesting web site, and
another mailing list. Search Google for "viola de
roda" and you'll find
http://usuarios.lycos.es/Aqueron/zamorana.htm
Links and contact information for Spanish makers, some
articles in Spanish on building (at least one of which
will look familar to English speakers), and a pointer
to a mailing list at Yahoo that says zanfona
construction and playing is one of the purposes of the
list. This link will take you there:
http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bagpipes-gaitas/?yguid=96109034
Or if the link breaks, look for bagpipes-gaitas at
groups.yahoo.com. The list is in Spanish, which I
read slowly, so I don't yet know how useful it will
be.
=====
--
Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
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