Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List - July 2002
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Our deepest thanks to Maxou Heintzen for this fabulous photograph, taken at Saint-Cloud near Paris in 1957 by an unknown photographer.
The following are the archives of the Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List, sponsored by Alden and Cali Hackmann of Olympic Musical Instruments.
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 08:40:29 +0100
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
Thanks for the interesting link. On the picture on the left (zanfonista
desconocido), the instrument closeley resembles the one Alden describes in
his Dutch hg notes (and the one I have made from the same drawings)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Sherman" <dennis_sherman _at_ yahoo.com>
Sent: 30 June 2002 19:57
Subject: Re: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
>
> --- "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
> wrote:
> > Hello again,
> >
> > 'Viola de teclas' is ostensibly a synonym for HG,
> > indeed. Similar etymology
> > exists for the instrument in Catalunya, where it is
> > referred to as 'viola de
> > roda'--and so identifying our beloved by its other
> > main distinguishing
> > feature, the wheel. In Portugal, incidentally, the
>
> Thanks for the information. Using it, and Google,
> I've run across a really interesting web site, and
> another mailing list. Search Google for "viola de
> roda" and you'll find
> http://usuarios.lycos.es/Aqueron/zamorana.htm
>
> Links and contact information for Spanish makers, some
> articles in Spanish on building (at least one of which
> will look familar to English speakers), and a pointer
> to a mailing list at Yahoo that says zanfona
> construction and playing is one of the purposes of the
> list. This link will take you there:
> http://es.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bagpipes-gaitas/?yguid=96109034
>
> Or if the link breaks, look for bagpipes-gaitas at
> groups.yahoo.com. The list is in Spanish, which I
> read slowly, so I don't yet know how useful it will
> be.
>
>
> =====
> --
> Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
> dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
>
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:13:41 +0100
From: Nicholas O Sullivan <nosullivan _at_ stangelascollegesligo.ie>
Subject: [HG] a very unusual hurdy-gurdy
I recently got the CD tenereze and there's a picture of Marc Anthony and
his Soirat electro-acoustic HG. The unusual thing about it is that there
appears to be a fretboard underneath the bourdon strings.
Is this correct, likely or possible ~ I'm intrigued
nicholas
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Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 12:33:05 +0200
From: Jens Walter <jwalter _at_ zfs.tz.uni-stuttgart.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] a very unusual hurdy-gurdy
Hallo Nicholas,
this is not so unusual. Siorat and Weichselbaumer at least provide
fingerboards for the bordun and trompette strings to give additional
possibilities to play with chords. They can be with fretts or not.
Jens
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 12:28:25 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: [HG] a very unusual hurdy-gurdy
Several modern HGs have fretboard under drones and or
symphatetic strings....they are for the third hand :o)
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 14:00:50 +0200
From: Reymen V <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
The hg on the left is very sure built on drawings from Herman Dewit a player
buider from Belgium There exists a set of plan and a complete boek "Het
Draailier" whith a complete description and pics how to make the instrument
but....only in flemish.
Its very good ,I made one and it's very good .
It's out of print for a few years already and I ask myself if it's a good idea
to ask Herman if I can make a translation perhaps ....
Who is interested?
Marc
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Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 14:02:32 +0200
From: Reymen V <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [HG] a very unusual hurdy-gurdy
I thougt is was for the feed...
marcello bono schreef:
> Several modern HGs have fretboard under drones and or
> symphatetic strings....they are for the third hand :o)
>
> =====
> Marcello Bono
>
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 02:09:53 -1000
From: Don Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: [HG] everclear??
I thought I'd enter the murky waters of liquid rosin...
Went to the liquor store here on Maui, asked for Everclear. Looked at
the bottle- it said 75%. There was no 95%
Will that work or am I, "sunk", so to speak?
I think Theo's going to try to get me some at St. Chartrier, but
meanwhile I thought I'd experiment.
Aloha-
Don
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Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 16:19:49 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] everclear??
hello,
Don Lax:
> Went to the liquor store here on Maui, asked for Everclear. Looked at
> the bottle- it said 75%.
my personal experience is this:
I experimented with adding water to the alcohol in order to retard the
drying. My impression was that this addititional water had a negative
influence on the quality of the wheel surface and on the long term on
the shape of the (wooden, in my case MDF) wheel.
> There was no 95%
Maybe an alternative: try to get alcohol for human consumption as one
buys for making liquor. Its usually expensive, but you do not need a lot
so this does not really count.
regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 17:16:48 +0200
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] everclear??
Good idea, Simon, you never need to go to a bar anymore after playing...but
don't tell the pipers...
skol
Helmut
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 18:18:33 +0100
From: Carol Jones <CarolJ _at_ btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
I would love to see a copy of this book in English - not that I need to
build one of Mr. Dewit's instruments - I already play one which was made by
Frits Van Het Hoofd. If you do manage to translate the book, I would buy
one, Marc.
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:27:23 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
I'm sure that many generations of English-reading folks will be very
grateful for a translation, whether or not they're currently on this email
list. :)
--JulieR
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:36:42 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: [HG] history of HG in Scandinavian countries
Hello - I've received word from the authors on this book and they've
suggested that it might be a good idea if I can find someone who is
travelling from Sweden to the US to purchase this book, rather than sending
it via mail. Apparently, the postage from Sweden costs as much as the book
itself (about $44 total).
So, I'm wondering if anybody on the list is going from Sweden to the states
anytime in the near future? I know of at least two of us who want copies of
this book, and I know I'd be grateful for some assistance in getting them
here. :)
--JulieR
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 14:15:14 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] history of HG in Scandinavian countries
Sorry - I should have made that a little clearer. The postage is reportedly
about $22, and the cost of the book is about the same.
--JulieR
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 23:01:56 +0100
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
Alden has the English translation of the hg chapter but perhaps not the
whole book.
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 23:00:59 +0100
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
There are already two translations. I have bought the one in German as I
understand the English one is out of print. The German one is still
available from the amazon.de website.
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Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2002 18:48:06 -0400
From: Beverly Woods <tradmusic _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] history of HG in Scandinavian countries
I'll ask on the nyckelharpa list, and check with a Swedish fiddler who's
about to come over & visit us.
Beverly
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 15:58:06 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] history of HG in Scandinavian countries
Oh, thank would be wonderful, thank you! :)
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 19:28:01 EDT
From: Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] re: nyckleharpas
Thanks for your help!
Felicia.
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 16:46:49 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: [HG] My HG
I've lurked on this list for a long time, and couldn't remember if I'd shown
pictures of my HG yet.
It's not in playing condition. I bought it on EBay, of all places, about 5
years ago for $200 when I first became obsessed with them. It's quite old.
The older woman I bought it from said it was her grandmother's, who had
brought it with her from Europe, and it had been sitting in her attic for
all those years. The body is badly cracked in places, and will probably
never be restored to playing condition unless I come up winning the lotto
and I could afford to throw a few thousand dollars at it (if it could be
restored at all). Eventually I'll get off my duff and bring it to Alden to
take a look at it so he can see it in person. It's about 65cm long and 23cm
at the widest. I just shined a light inside and can't see any markings on
the inside, although I did spy a big spider nest.
http://www.julesong.com/pics/jhurdyupright.jpg
http://www.julesong.com/pics/jhurdytable.jpg
So I don't have a working HG, yet. Someday. Somehow.
--JulieR
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Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 21:19:10 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: RE: [HG] a very unusual hurdy-gurdy
Hallo-
also, note fingerboards, fretted and unfretted on these photos of Jesus
Reolid's instruments:
http://ret007ei.eresmas.net/reolid/images/zanfonagerm3.jpg
http://ret007ei.eresmas.net/reolid/images/zanfonarafa2.jpg
http://ret007ei.eresmas.net/reolid/images/zanfonagerm.jpg
http://ret007ei.eresmas.net/reolid/images/zanfonagerm2.jpg
Vlad
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 07:59:25 +0200
From: Lauwers.P <Lauwers.P _at_ itc.mil.be>
Subject: RE: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
Marc,
If you need a hand while translating Herman Dewit's book about the
draailier, let me know.
I recently bought a hurdy-gurdy from Jaak Devuyst (it's still under
construction) so reading about the construction of the instrument (and
translating at the same time) can only be of interest to a rookie like me.
Hear you,
Pieter Lauwers
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Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 00:46:15 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] everclear??
Don -
>Went to the liquor store here on Maui, asked for Everclear. Looked at the
>bottle- it said 75%. There was no 95%
If it's genuine Everclear, it should say "190 proof" on it, which is
95%. Perhaps explain to the nice clerk why you want it. It's also
possible that Hawaii restricts the sale of 190 proof, in which case you may
be out of luck.
Most molecular biology labs have a big carboy of the stuff sitting around,
because it's very useful for so many things in the lab, especially
precipitating DNA out of solution. (File under "Interesting Trivia That I
Really Didn't Need to Know." ;-) ) Of course persuading them to part with
any is somewhat difficult, assuming that you can get in to talk to them at
all.
Denatured alcohol may be your refuge. It's really nice if you can find out
what it's denatured with - methanol is wonderful, because it is also an
alcohol and (I would assume) should then also be a solvent for rosin. It
is toxic, of course, but not enough to worry about in the quantities you'd
be using and potentially breathing. Toluene and benzene are common
denaturants also. or so I've heard, and these are Not Good For You At All.
A side note: moving liquid rosin around the country may be a bit more
difficult than it used to be. 95% ethanol is definitely flammable and
possibly explosive. As such, the US Postal Service bans its transport by
mail, and their inspectors are a little touchy these days about people who
flout the restriction.
Alden
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 00:55:44 -0700
From: Bob Mackie <rwmackie _at_ telus.net>
Subject: RE: [HG] everclear??
At UBC, (Vancouver), I was told that the pure 98.5% methanol is usually
rendered "poisonous" by the addition of a phenolthalean solution which is
used as a trace medium. Phenol is apparently a very effective laxative.
But I did manage to get a gallon of the unadultrated stuff for 15 bucks.
I am researching lutherie schools and I came across one that is situated
in a small village in rural Saskatchewan. Seven week course for $2500
Canadian, $200 for lodging. See following:
http://www.timelessinstruments.com/classes.html
Timeless Instruments'
School of Luthiery
Acoustic Guitar Construction Training
All prices are in Canadian funds
~ Click here to convert to your currency ~
Timeless Instruments provides a fully equipped workshop for individuals
to learn the skills knowledge and source of Lutherie, so they can
continue to refine their abilities on their own. Our seven-week
training program allows students to learn the art of Lutherie as
they design and build their own instrument.
The student must be 19 years of age and have grade 12. The applicant
may also be accepted as a Mature Student after a thorough review.
There is a maximum of seven students per training session. The
training is taught in a step by step procedure. Each step consists
of:
Lecture, during which the students are expected to take notes
Demonstration of work methods
Actual planning and work of that step by the student
Build your own guitar in 7 weeks of hands on training.
Learn design, parts, assembly, finishing and set-up.............
......$2500.00 Cdn.
Accommodations $200.00 for 7 weeks
Lutherie Certification upon completion.
Upon successful completion of the core program. Acoustic
guitar Training Students may apply for further training
under the following options:
Resophonic Guitar
Celtic/ Irish Folk Harp
These options are designed to develop the student's
knowledge and skills of lutherie.
RESOPHONIC GUITAR OPTION:
Learn design and structural differences of a resophonic
guitar to the core program by building a wooden Dobro resonator
guitar or a Hawaiian Lap style guitar.
Upon completion of the second instrument, students will have
a stonger concept of the acoustic and structural balances
of an instrument.
The option runs for 7 weeks, with 20 hours of instruction
per week. There will be lectures, consultation and guidance
to aid the student in their work.
The cost for materials and supplies is $700.00 canadian
and there is an additional charge of $800.00 for instruction
and shop overhead.
The total cost of the option is $1500.00 canadian.
Students will be evaluated on ability to anticipate and rectify
acoustical and structural problems, design capabilities, skill
with tools and materials and their knowledge of the completed
instrument.
CELTIC / IRISH FOLK HARP OPTION
This option also runs for 7 weeks, with 20 hours per week of
instruction, lectures and necessary guidance. The cost for
materials is $900.00 canadian and there is and additional
charge of $800.00 for instruction and shop overhead. The
total cost is $1700.00 canadian.
Firstly the Student will study various different harp styles
and sizes. Theory consists of understanding the critical
relationship of the sound box, pillar and bow angles. Also
learn how to focus on structural and accoustical balance
on the Pillar and Post. The student will also learn joining,
bracing, stringing, tuning and finishing.
Upcoming Course Dates:
March 4 - April 19, 2002
April 29 - June 14, 2002
Sept 2 - Oct18 2002
Oct 28 - Dec13 2002
Special Notice: Build your own classical or steel string
guitar in Wellington with renowned Canadian luthier
(Instrument maker) Dave Freeman who is travelling to New Zealand
to specifically run this one off course and local Wellington
maker Paddy Burgin in January 2003.
For more information and booking details contact Paddy Burgin
Phone: 04 384-5572 or E mail: paddy _at_ burginguitars.co.nz Visit
my website at www.burginguitars.co.nz
Why don't Alden and Cali offer the HG equivalent?
Bob Mackie
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 01:49:23 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: [HG] lutherie seminar
Wow... that would be way *beyond* neat to be able to do something like that.
I never could afford it, either in funds or in time spent away from work,
but it would be *great*.
Of course, I'd rather it were a HG course. :)
--JulieR
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Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 10:52:46 +0200
From: Reymen V <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
Sorry boys,there exists another book "het draailierboek" the hg book ,only about
the hg complete whith a very ellaborated construction part .
This is not the part of the book Making musical Instruments from Dewit en
Bottermans.
Its definitly not translated or printed in any other language than Flemish
Tis is why I asked ....
Marc
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 12:23:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: [HG] everclear??
On Tue, 2 Jul 2002, Bob Mackie wrote:
> At UBC, (Vancouver), I was told that the pure 98.5% methanol is usually
> rendered "poisonous" by the addition of a phenolthalean solution which is
> used as a trace medium. Phenol is apparently a very effective laxative.
> But I did manage to get a gallon of the unadultrated stuff for 15 bucks.
Some chemistry nigglings:
- I assume you mean "ethanol" where you wrote "methanol". Ethanol is
ethyl alcohol, also called grain alcohol, ingested by some humans for its
popular effects as a central nervous system depressant. Methanol, methyl
alcohol, also called wood alcohol, is considerable more toxic, causing
blindness and death.
- Ethanol is generally available as a 95% preparation, with water making
up the other 5%. This is because the 95/5 mixture is the purest that can
be obtained by distillation. There are other ways of getting it more
pure, up to 100%, but they are much more expensive and are (in this
application) not worth the bother.
- Phenolphthalein does have the effect of a laxative, and can be used to
denature ethanol so people won't consume it for pleasure. Phenol is a
different chemical, and is quite toxic.
Alden
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 16:49:26 -0500
From: Heidi & Steve <heidiste _at_ concentric.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] everclear??
>
> On Tue, 2 Jul 2002, Alden wrote:
>
> - Ethanol is generally available as a 95% preparation, with water making
> up the other 5%. This is because the 95/5 mixture is the purest that can
> be obtained by distillation. There are other ways of getting it more
> pure, up to 100%, but they are much more expensive and are (in this
> application) not worth the bother.
>
Even if you got it to be more pure than 95%, alcohol is very hydrophilic,
meaning it LOVES water (the very bane of those who love alcohol {so I've
heard}). This means that when you open the bottle, the percent purity drops
quickly.
You may want to check fancy woodworking or leather stores. Many of the
dried dies are alcohol based and they will sell the very concentrated
solvent you may be looking for. Stewart MacDonald sells a substitute for
alky, not sure how it would work. They won't fly it to you anyway though
(as Alden mentioned).
Steve
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 16:53:29 -0500
From: Heidi & Steve <heidiste _at_ concentric.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] lutherie seminar
Check around. We have a local Continuing Education class (Bloomington, MN)
that teaches guitar building on Saturdays. It was $70.00 per semester.
Excellent instruction. The original instructor moved to Portland and I am
sure he will be starting instruction again.
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 23:03:40 +0100
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
I am not a great authority on languages but I think the original book was in
ordinary Dutch, not Flemish (whatever that is) and I struggled along with
the diagrams and a Dutch dictionary until Alden came along with the goods in
Anglo-American (we have to be sensitive about calling it English nowadays)
george swallow
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 17:41:55 -0700
From: Bob Mackie <rwmackie _at_ telus.net>
Subject: RE: [HG] everclear??
Yes, ethanol. Chance be that I was hauling 124 empty rail tank cars from
unloading docks in Vancouver that did contain methanol, before I logged
into my e-mail and delved into the discussion on thinners. I did not
know the difference between phenol and Phenolphthalein. But the
iceworm cocktails that we made from that jug were very excellent, and
did spice up a rather driven frat casino night those thirty some years
ago. The iceworm was an uncooked macroni noodle with an eye-dot painted
on it. Not going to give away any more secrets.
Bob Mackie
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:44:58 -1000
From: Don Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] everclear??
Thanks for the various responses. Unfortunately I live in a
quasi-third-world country (Maui) that's over 2000 miles in any direction
from the nearest land mass. And the liquor laws here seem to be somewhat
Prohibitionist. Not being a drinker, I don't really care, but I DO want
to make liquid rosin.
Any other ideas??
Thanks-
Don
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Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:16:58 +0200
From: Lauwers.P <Lauwers.P _at_ itc.mil.be>
Subject: RE: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
There are a two regions in Europe where people speak Dutch or close related
dialects. There's the Netherlands, north of the Belgian border. Second you
have Flanders, one of the three regions in Belgium and the northern part of
Belgium. (don't try to understand the political structure of Belgium, even
we can't) The language in the book is Dutch, but can also be called Flemish.
The northern Dutch, spoken in the Netherlands, will sound harder and more
guttural, the southern Dutch, Flemish, has a smoother sound. But they are
both written the same.
By the way, the 11th of July the northern region of Belgium, Flanders, is
celebrating the national holiday in commemoration of 11th July 1302. That
day we kicked the ass of the French. (two years later they kicked back)
Vlaanderen boven,
Pieter Lauwers
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Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:51:27 +0200
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] everclear??
Hello Don,
I just spoke to my pharmacy, aethanol is used for desinfection in medical
sectors, try to get some at your local hospital or from your doctor. It
shold dissolve the rosin too.
I hope this helps you
Aloha
Helmut
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 22:11:20 -1000
From: Don Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] everclear??
Thanks Helmut-
I'll check it out-
Aloha-
Don
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Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 10:19:05 +0200
From: Reymen V <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
Bedankt voor de uitleg want:hoeleg je dat nu allemaal uit aan de wereld....
Marc
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Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:01:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
> Bedankt voor de uitleg want:hoeleg je dat nu allemaal uit aan de wereld....
> Marc
Which means... what? ;-)
Alden
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Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 09:28:57 -0600
From: Barry Black <bbc0 _at_ telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] everclear??
I grew up in England and there we used 'methylated spirits' for cleaning
oily woods before gluing and a host of other uses around the shop. It was
purple in colour and although you couldn't or shouldn't drink it, it did
everything else wonderfully. Anyone know what that stuff is? No one knows
what I am talking about here in Alberta when I ask for it.
Barry
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Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 09:18:08 -0700
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
Lying in bed infront of my outside leg, wanting: that new animal
whose leg you whirled....
or,
Thanks for the explanation, because: how does one explain all this to
the world...
take your pick,
Juan
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Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 09:34:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
And speaking of legs, why do I get the feeling the proberbial one is
being pulled?
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Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 11:49:13 -0700
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
Double Dutch is not just a rope skipping game Roy, after you get the
hang of it, translating a book on making a hurdy gurdy is like....
kid's play.
Juan
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Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 20:48:33 +0100
From: Matthew Williams <mattwill75 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] Workshop 31 Aug-1 Sep
Hi Ruthie,
Hope bookings are going OK for the Haddenham weekend. I think I
registered my interest earlier. Where do I send my cheque?
Matthew Williams
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Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2002 21:06:56 +0100
From: Matthew Williams <mattwill75 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] Het spijt me
Whoops, that last message was intended just for Ruthie, not everyone...
Sorry, list,
Matthew
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:13:13 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Het spijt me
Don't be surprised if you get a lot of replies! :-)
Colin
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 07:43:38 +0200
From: Lauwers.P <Lauwers.P _at_ itc.mil.be>
Subject: RE: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
Thanks for the explanation because the matter is difficult to explain to the
world.
Pieter
-----Original Message-----
From: Alden Hackmann [mailto:darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu]
Sent: woensdag 3 juli 2002 17:01
Subject: Re: [HG] RE: viola de teclas
Which means... what? ;-)
Alden
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Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 22:18:01 -1000
From: Don Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] everclear??
OK-
I went to the little mom and pop pharmacy in my neighborhood today and
actually found a pint bottle of "Not less than 99%" Anhydrous USP
isopropyl alcohol. It cost only $1.66. They only had one bottle, so I
bought it. (Knowing Maui, the next one won't get here for three
months)...
Will this work? I've got the rosin and the dropper bottle, but I want to
make sure before I start in with my alchemy experiments...
Thanks-
Don
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 11:43:59 -0700
From: Peter <lodger _at_ speakeasy.org>
Subject: [HG] Re: Coil Remote Viewer
John,
I finally had a chance to listen to the CD you sent me. Thank you so much,
it's awesome and I really appreciate your making it.
I don't have any other Hurdy Gurdy music, but I'd be happy to send you some
innovative pop made by me, or a film music demo made by me (mostly
synthy/commercial intent).
This Coil was more dron-ey than other Coil I had heard, but still quite
compelling.
Thanks again,
Peter
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 22:20:55 -0400
From: Beverly Woods <tradmusic _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Re: Scand hg books
For folks who want "Lirans hemligheter" by Per-Ulf
Allmo and Jan Winter:
I wrote the nyckelharpa list, and got this response:
> I might be able to help - I am leaving Sunday and returning on the 21st. I
> live in Seattle. How big are these books - where does one find them in
Sweden?
please let me know, if you know the answers to these questions.
Thanks,
Beverly
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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 06:59:27 +0100
From: Ruth Bramley <ruthbramley _at_ btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Workshop 31 Aug-1 Sep
Intended for my eyes only...but a good opportunity for another plug for this
workshop weekend...(I've already replied to Matthew off-list)
The uptake is being a bit slow...perhaps everyone's out enjoying the summer
weather (joke if you live in UK !)
Hope to hear from more of you soon.
Ruthie
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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 09:31:20 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Fw: [BFD] French Dance in Milton Keynes
Here if a posting that might be of interest to our UK members.
r.t.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fanstone, Jeff" <Jeff.Fanstone _at_ northgate-is.com>
To: <BRETON-FRENCH-DANCE-L _at_ rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 5:36 AM
Subject: [BFD] French Dance in Milton Keynes
> The next dance is on Tuesday 9th July at 8p.m.
>
> We will then have a break for August, opening again in September.
>
> VENUE: Barn Theatre,
> Courtyard Arts Centre,
> Great Linford,
> Milton Keynes,
> MK14 5DZ
>
> TIME: 2nd Tuesday of the month at 8pm
> FURTHER INFO: Ian Clabburn - clabburn _at_ sakbut.fsnet.co.uk
> Tel 01327 705265
> DIRECTIONS: From the M1 Junction 14
> Come off the Motorway and head towards Newport Pagnell on the
A509;
> At the first roundabout turn left onto the A422;
> Go straight over two roundabouts;
> Turn right at the third into St Leger Drive;
> St Leger Drive has a pronounced bend left and then right;
> Parklands is then approx the third turning on the right, sign
posted
> St Andrews Church;
> Barn Theatre is to the right.
>
> The map containing Parklands is available from:
>
> http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?grid2map?X=484750&Y=242250&zoom=1
>
> Enter the post code (MK14 5DZ) on this web page to get an arrow pointing
to
> the Barn Theatre.
>
> This is a friendly and active group with new musicians and dancers always
> welcome.
>
> I will be travelling from Hemel Hempstead so if anybody needs a lift then
> send me an email, or phone 01442 219531.
>
> Jeff
> jeff.fanstone _at_ northgate-is.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cam-French mailing list - Cam-French _at_ chiark.greenend.org.uk
> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/cam-french
> "Yes sir, I can bourree!"
>
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Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 10:02:10 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] From Barry
From: "Barry Black" <barry _at_ blackboardcreations.com>
Subject: Left handed hg's
Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 21:41:38 -0600
Is there much of a call for left handed hurdy-gurdy's? I have just
realized that I have made all of the keys that way!!
Barry
www.blackboardcreations.com
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Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 17:29:25 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] From Barry
Good grief. I was just talking to someone who said they always wanted
to play HG, but was left handed and couldn't. Let me think who that
was....
(I, of course, am left handed. It didn't occur to me that maybe that
was the source of my hurdy gurdy 'disabilities'....)
judith
Judith Lindenau
Hurdy Gurdy, Whistles, Dulcimer
"Music is the moral law. It gives life to the universe, wings
to the mind, flight to the imagination and charm to sadness ...
It gives gaiety and life to everything! It is the essence of
order and lends to all that is good." - Plato
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Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2002 23:52:19 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] From Barry
Hello,
I am lefthanded and earn my living by playing HG ... wonder if I would
play better being right handed :o)
I see just one reason to play a HG with the keys at the right hand and
this is a disability to play it the usual way. Somthing like missing
fingers on the left hand :-| .
regards
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 0:35:54 -0700
From: Joanne Andrus <joaand _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [HG] Re: Scand hg books
It's approx 9 1/2 x 7 x 1 (375 pages) In other words, a fairly ordinary
book size.
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Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 12:04:26 +0100
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] From Barry
OK as long as you remember you need a LH thread on the wheel shaft
George
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Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2002 22:46:03 -0600
From: Barry Black <bbc0 _at_ telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] From Barry
So now we are back to that left hand thread thing :)
BB
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Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2002 12:43:18 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [HG] From Barry & Henry
Unless your brother in law is a machinist I suggest that you just
add a set screw to the standart thread and live a simple happy life
ever after <g>
Henry
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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2002 14:50:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] From Barry & Henry
I was about to mention that it would probably be less grief to make a
new set of keys than to do a full LH conversion.
Roy T.
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Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 00:54:49 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] From Barry
Barry said:
> > > Is there much of a call for left handed hurdy-gurdy's? I have just =
> > > realized that I have made all of the keys that way!!
I'm curious, Barry - in what way are the keys backward? If you flip them
over, they should go in the other side of the keybox. You may need to shim
or file them to refit a little bit.
If worst comes to worst, it seems easier to me to make a new set of keys
than to make the whole instrument backwards. It's not just that the wheel
thread is backwards (depending on how you make your shaft) but the thread
for the handle will also be backwards. And does this mean that your drone
bridges aren't glued on yet? You'd need them reversed also...
Alden
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Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 09:02:49 +0100
From: peter.j.hughes _at_ bt.com
Subject: [HG] The Nyckelharpa Strikes Back. (UK BBC Four on Tuesday
evening.)
Slightly OT, but some of you in the UK may be interested in a documentary
about the Nyckelharpa on BBC Four this evening at 9.00pm.
See:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/listings/programme.shtml?day=today&filename=200
20709/20020709_2100_4544_37548_60
Peter.
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Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 10:40:12 +0100
From: george.swallow <george.swallow _at_ beechcottage98.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: [HG] Left-handed hg etc
Barry
And don't forget to convert the tourne-a-gauche to a tourne-a-droite to go
with it! On the whole a LH hg is only just a bit more practical than a lh
violin, the difference being that the hg player on the next chair to you
doesn't need to wear goggles.
george swallow
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Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 09:09:23 -0700
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] The Nyckelharpa Strikes Back. (UK BBC Four on Tuesday
evening.)
Thanks Peter. I will go to the BBC site and check. I listen to Short
Wave during thw winter a lot. Is this broadcast the one beamed to the
US or for Europe? I thought the programing for the US didn't come in
until midnight. Is that 9:00 pm EST? If it is for Europe or Africa or
the Orient we may ar may not be able to get it here. Depends on
sunactivity and so forth. Let us know more. I will check the BBC site
and see if there is any more information.
Joan
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Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:31:08 +0100
From: peter.j.hughes _at_ bt.com
Subject: RE: [HG] The Nyckelharpa Strikes Back. (UK BBC Four on
Tuesday e vening.)
Oops, I should have been more specific. I meant the BBC Four Digital
TV channel. I have no idea about the non-UK availablity of this.
Peter.
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Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 17:56:16 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] The Nyckelharpa Strikes Back. (UK BBC Four on
Tuesday e vening.)
Thought it sounded too good to be on the normal channels!!! Bah! Haven't got
that - only BBC1 & 2.
Colin Hill
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Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2002 13:13:14 -0400
From: Allan Janus <allan.janus _at_ verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] The Nyckelharpa Strikes Back. (UK BBC Four on Tuesday
evening.)
One can hear BBC 4 over the net:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/
Look for the "Listen Live" link at the top of the page or go to:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/radio4.shtml?fm
Allan Janus
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Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 21:27:36 -0600
From: Barry Black <bbc0 _at_ telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] From Barry
Actually I hadn't thought of that, but I can do as you suggest with the
black keys Alden. The white ones I made with offset finger 'pads' and so I
can't do that with them. Thanks for the suggestion though.
BB
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Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 13:57:24 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Liquid rosin
Hi,
I haven't been following all the posts lately so please forgive me if I'm
stating something that has already been discussed into the ground.
I have seen several posts about liquid rosin and obtaining the supplies to
make the stuff. Often, these posts are coming from folks that I know are
beginning players. I know that everyone has their own opinion about such
things, but as an experienced player and builder I feel like I need to rant
about this just a little bit.
If you are a beginning player liquid rosin is not going to solve any
problems for you. It can in fact create a bunch of them. This technique
is cool if you need it for certain special applications and it is fine if
you are an experienced player and already know how to solve the problems it
can create. But, you really don't need to use this stuff to enjoy playing
your instrument and it is quite a bit trickier to obtain and use than just
plain old violin rosin which will work just fine. It also makes a really
amazing mess in your case when the cap works loose and it spills.
If you really feel that you must experiment with it, don't try to make this
with isopropyl alcohol. That's the stuff that you can obtain at the
drugstore or chemist. This is the wrong kind of alcohol, it won't dissolve
the rosin properly and it's got way too much water in it. You will end up
raising the wood grain on your wheel and get lumps of undissolved stuff
stuck in places you don't want it. You need as pure a source of ethanol as
you can get.
Simon, I'm betting that you are going to disagree with me on this one so,
if you do, please post your phone number so that folks can call you when
they need instructions on sanding the stuff off their wheels :-)
End of rant, grumpy face removed.
:-)-----Cali Hackmann
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 19:16:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Sherman <dennis_sherman _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: [HG] Anyone read Czech?
http://www.volny.cz/vico/koblicek/
There's one page I've found so far in English, and I
sure wish I could read Czech. There are some photos
of some really interesting looking hurdy gurdies.
Anyone know a site that will do Czech->English
translation? Babelfish doesn't seem to... sigh.
=====
--
Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 22:38:06 -0700
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Liquid rosin
[emwink.gif] OH NO. Alden. Put your face back on. We like it. We
don't want you faceless. Tee hee. Joan
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 08:21:34 +0000
From: Stephen Evans <brunfelsia _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Liquid rosin
Hi Don,
I concur with your remarks re Propan-2-ol[isopropyl]. Any purity over
90% is fine. My technique is to put all 6 strings in contact with the wheel,
use copious amounts of block rosin on the wheel and coat the strings' cotton
thoroughly. Using a clean linen hankerchief,form a pad and soaked in
alcohol, remove the majority of the rosin from the wheel as you turn [4-5
seconds]. Dry off the wheel with another clean cloth[4-5 secs], keep turning
and the friction dries out the strings' cotton very quickly. Minimal rosin
to the wheel afterwards produces brilliant tone. At this purity, the
alcohol's volatility is such that there is absolutely no chance of raising
the wheel grain. I've done this for 5 years without any problems. Using pure
shot silk fibres[pulled from a pure silk scarf or similar instead of cotton
gives an unbelievable tone also and unlike cotton, does not wear.I guess
this is what was used prior to cotton being available in Europe pre 1500.
Regards,
Steve Evans
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 02:26:31 -1000
From: Don Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Liquid rosin
Thank you, thank you and thank you again.
And I like the silk idea, too...
Aloha-
Don.
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Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 19:21:01 -0700
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: [HG] From Judith
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 17:14:27 -0400
From: jlindenau _at_ netonecom.net
Subject: Re: [HG] Anyone read Czech?
Well, I am writing this from Prague. I can probably
find a good czech translator... they are everywhere!
Give me that site again.
Judith
judith _at_ taar.com
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Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 17:47:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Sherman <dennis_sherman _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] From Judith
http://www.volny.cz/vico/koblicek/
Actually, it may not be Czech. The mailing address
says Slovakia... and I'm not entirely clear on who
speaks what language(s) in that neighborhood.
In any case, the pages of particular interest are
http://www.volny.cz/vico/koblicek/nastroje.htm and
http://www.volny.cz/vico/koblicek/zivotopis.htm
The first may be "introduction to the instruments I
make", there isn't much text there, although the
pictures are good.
The second is workshop pictures, one with a couple of
hurdy gurdies in progress in the foreground, while
he's working on something else in the background, and
a picture of playing a hurdy gurdy. There's quite a
bit of text, and I'd love a clue what it's about.
And don't miss
http://www.volny.cz/vico/koblicek/ninera.htm -- no
text, but really nice pictures!
=====
--
Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 22:24:59 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] From Judith
Dennis:
The pages are in Slovak. I've asked a friend of mine for
a translation, which I will send to you.
I happen to own one of those ninera you see on the site,
and I visited Tibor in April in his workshop. He is a
great woodworker and folk musician as well as a delightful
person.
I have an MP3 of him playing and singing...be glad to send it
to you if you can use it.
Judith
judith _at_ taar.com
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 19:45:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dennis Sherman <dennis_sherman _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] From Judith
Wonderful! If you know him well enough to ask... is
it possible the translations could be added to his web
site? Then future Slovak-impaired people who run
across his web site will find them, too.
I find his instruments to have a very different visual
esthetic about them. They're quite interesting to
look at. Can you comment on whether they are
different or unusual to play?
> I have an MP3 of him playing and singing...be glad
> to send it
> to you if you can use it.
I downloaded and played the MP3 available on the web
site. If you've got something different, I'd be happy
to hear it! But it may be better to put it somewhere
on the web for people to download. Can't send it to
the mailing list, and there may be other people who'd
like to hear it too.
Thanks, Judith. Now I know you've got _2_ instruments
I'd like to hear and get some hands on experience
with... :-)
=====
--
Dennis Sherman Chicago, IL
dennis_sherman _at_ sherman-erickson.org
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 09:12:05 +0200
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] Liquid rosin
Hi Alden,
I really agree!!!
Liquid rosin can be dangerous for beginners and nerve-racking for the
luthier afterwards.
Greetings
Helmut
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:03:28 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Liquid rosin
Hello,
Helmut Gotschy:
> Liquid rosin can be dangerous for beginners and nerve-racking for the
> luthier afterwards.
^X
> Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
> > Simon, I'm betting that you are going to disagree with me on this one so,
> > if you do, please post your phone number so that folks can call you when
Liquid rosin is just dangerous for thouse who cannot follow
instructions. Some people always try to creatively miss-interprete any
strict instruction, or to reinvent things without understanding the
basics. Yes, for thouse liquid rosin is a wide field to invent troubles.
If one strictly follows all given instructions there is no danger at
all.
> > they need instructions on sanding the stuff off their wheels :-)
There is no need to sand off the wheel. Just use a bit of alcohol (or a
good light solution of liquid rosin) on a ball of cotton or a
handkerchief for cleaning the wheel.
The thing is, most beginners just start to find the balance between
rosin and string pressure no matter if it is dry or liquid rosin. The
only difference is that with the use of liquid rosin some guys tend to
blame this stuff. I definitely saw wheels which were completely
devastated by the use of simple block rosin (and instruments that were
covered with powder rosin like a mountaintop with snow).
regards
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 23:13:42 -1000
From: Don Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Liquid rosin
Hi everyone-
Well- no-one ever answered my emails about 99% isopropyl alcohol, except
Steve Evans, who seemed to think that it was fine. So I made a batch of
liquid rosin (using the 99% pure isopropyl alcohol) and I've used it
twice on my hg wheel, both times with a vast improvement on the tone
over the dry rosin. I have a feeling that this is partially due top the
extreme humidity here. In any case I would still love to get more
feedback on the subject, and also more feedback on dealing with humidity
in general...
Aloha-
Don
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:59:09 +0200
From: Wolfgang Weichselbaumer <atelier _at_ weichselbaumer.cc>
Subject: Re[2]: [HG] Liquid rosin
Hi Don,
last week in St.Chartier I met Theo and R.T. and they got a bottle of
liquid rosin from me.
This mixture is specially adjusted for Theo´s instrument (it has got a
very specific synthetic wheel).
If you want to try it on your instrument, please make sure to use it
very sparingly.
Otherwise it can be to strong for a wooden wheel.
Please let me know about your results and feel free to contact me if I
can help you with any advice.
Regards
wolfgang
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:52:29 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Liquid rosin
see http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/i8840.htm
It is a rather dangerous substance even though it is used for cleaning tape
heads etc. See section 10 of the above re danger after evaporation - BOOM!
There goes the HG! <grin>
I would be very careful if using it in all but the smallest amounts. You
also need to keep it off your skin (use gloves) and the vapour is toxic.
Please leave your HG to me in your will if you decide to use this method.
Colin Hill
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 02:38:51 -1000
From: Don Lax <donvlax _at_ maui.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Liquid rosin
Thanks for the info Colin.
Since one uses only 2-3 drops at a time on a piece of cotton, and
there's no reason to touch or inhale the stuff, and I only use it at
most twice a week, I don't really see the relative toxicity as a problem.
Am I being naive? My main concern is if it is bad for the wheel...
Thanks-
Don
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 16:38:08 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Liquid rosin
Don Lax:
> Since one uses only 2-3 drops at a time on a piece of cotton, and
> there's no reason to touch or inhale the stuff, and I only use it at
> most twice a week, I don't really see the relative toxicity as a problem.
> Am I being naive? My main concern is if it is bad for the wheel...
Colin Hill wrote:
> > see http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/i8840.htm
> > It is a rather dangerous substance even though it is used for cleaning
> > tape
> > heads etc. See section 10 of the above re danger after evaporation -
> > BOOM!
I do not want to make risks smaller than they are, meaning that it would
obviously make sense to use ethanol and nothing else, but lets just to
put it into a relation:
http://www.aaper.com/ethanol190.html
And at least the toxiticy of car fuel and its vapor (last but not least
containing severe amounts of benzene which causes cancer and DNA
defects) and the fuels tendency to explode does not stop anybody from
fueling a car.
regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:51:02 +0100
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Liquid rosin
Sorry, didn't want to panic anyone. I remember the card-reading machines in
the bank I worked at. We used to clean them with a little card soaked in P.
alcohol (provided in a little sachet ) and we were banned from using them
under the health & safety at work act. We had to get in man from the machine
company but come to think of it, he used a big dash of it on a rag so I take
your point! (mind you, your page ref sounds like a description of any good
scotch!) :-)
Colin
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Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 18:48:20 +0200
From: Marc Reymen <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: [HG] (no subject)
Hello list,
I have some questions for the builders among us:
What should the distance be between the chanter bridge and the wheel,and
what are the consequenses whwn it is to close or to far away ?
How can this distance been optimised ?( do not take into account
problems whith the tangent box presume it has still to be made...
What do you think about putting the bridge only halfway on the
reinforcement timber under the upper plate ?
this should make it easier for the bridge to put the upper plate into a
vibrating motion
Thanks for your help
Marc
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Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 12:15:45 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: RE: [HG] (no subject)
some notes on distance from the bridge--
the distance from the brdige to the wheel affects the pattern of overtones
elicited in the playing of the string; a shorter distance between bridge
and wheel elicits the higher partials, and the consequence is a more 'nasal'
tone, or a more shrill tone. basically, it increases the prominence of the
sound. a bridge further for the wheel elicits the lower partials--overtones
like the octave, fifth etc. thus, the further the wheel is from the bridge,
the more rich, low sound you'll get. for this reason, HGs have the bridges
for the drones (almost always) further from the wheel than the bridge for
the chanterells. it's similar to plucking a guitar or other string instrument
closer or further from the bridge: close to the bridge you get a more shrill,
'twangy' sound; further from it, a lower, richer, more 'boomy' sound.
marcello bono's 'la ghironda' is helpful in that it gives the variance of
distances between wheel and bridge on several insturments, but the actual
distance of course depends on the instr and string length.
good luck,
Vlad
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Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 20:09:49 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] distance betwwen bridge and wheel [was: (no subject)]
Hello,
"Smishkewych, Wolodymyr":
> some notes on distance from the bridge--
> the distance from the brdige to the wheel affects the pattern
> of overtones elicited in the playing of the string; a shorter
> distance between bridge and wheel elicits the higher partials,
> and the consequence is a more 'nasal' tone, or a more shrill
> tone. basically, it increases the prominence of the sound. a
> bridge further for the wheel elicits the lower partials--overtones
> like the octave, fifth etc. thus, the further the wheel is from
> the bridge, the more rich, low sound you'll get. for this reason,
> HGs have the bridges for the drones (almost always) further from
> the wheel than the bridge for the chanterells. it's similar to
> plucking a guitar or other string instrument closer or further
> from the bridge: close to the bridge you get a more shrill,
> 'twangy' sound; further from it, a lower, richer, more 'boomy'
> sound.
the problem with this is that other than on guitar or violin where the
position of the picking point/bow is chosen for each pitch separately on
the HG this is a global - default - decission. So generalizing that the
sound gets 'lower, richer, more 'boomy'' when the distance between
bridge and wheel is wide is only true for about the lower octave. For
the high octave this may cause a thin tone with little brilliance so its
definitely not that easy.
The choosen distance represents in fact a compromise serving all pitches
depending on the range of the instrument and the players intentions. I
play an instrument whith a keyboard range of two and a half octaves (g
to d''') and the distance between bridge and the wheel is about 17.5 mm
(edge of the bridge to where the string touches the wheel; 360 mm open
string lenght). the resulting sound is satifying me very much.
regards
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 13:37:47 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: RE: [HG] bridge distance + low notes
Also,
just as an appendix to Vlad's good summary, be aware that the exact
position of the elements in a HG is trying to optimize sounds across
the range of the instrument. What works on your open chanterelle
might not work when you are at the top of the second octave (and
hence 2/3 of the way up the string). With a guitar or even a
nyckelharpa you have the option of moving the plectrum/fingers/bow to
accommodate the varying string lengths and keep good tone. Not so on
a HG, so you have to shoot for somewhere in the middle between what
works well for the low notes and what works well for the high notes
and accept that it won't be perfect across the scale length, but
shoot for a happy medium. (I see that while I was writing this Simon
came on with almost the same comment).
As an aside, Nagy Balázs made a bass instrument (identical to what
Jim Winters has ordered from him) and came to the conclusion that the
outside limit on the depth of an HG is where the chanter is a fifth
below the standard tekerő chanter (i.e., the open string sounds a G,
one and a half octaves below middle C). Any lower than that and the
physical vibration of the strings made them impossible to control
(i.e., the vibration of the string simply gets too big to control).
I played this bass instrument briefly and can say that it was quite
the amazing experience. It was so low that the bass drone set my
entire body vibrating and I felt like the sound was coming out of my
stomach. Totally unlike anything else I have played...
-Arle
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Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 23:29:12 +0200
From: Marc Reymen <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [HG] bridge distance + low notes
Hello,
I think you are right there must be a optimum for the range instead of
for one tone.
However when I design an instrument there must be a point to start whith.
Do you think 18 mm would be a good starting point ?
Marc
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Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 08:23:41 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] bridge distance + low notes
Without going back to see what exactly you are designing (I purged my
old messages), I can't say on that. Your best bet would be to get
the measurements for some instruments you like that are in the same
style with similar dimensions and properties and see what they do.
The difficulty in making a blanket recommendation is that you may
like one sort of sound, while I might like another; and if I said yes
to 18 mm, I might find that your specific instrument would require
something else. So go with what you find works on other instruments
you like, or ask Alden and Cali for specifics on your type of
instrument.
Best
-Arle
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Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 15:34:40 +0000
From: Martijn Dekker <martijn_dekker _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] dewit hurdy-gurdy plans
First of all, i am new here. I really like this mailing list. I think it is
an perfect way to share our interest.
I would like to know if there are people here that have started or have
finished building a hurdy gurdy from the dewit plans.(i preffer people in
The Netherlands)
If so what are your experiences with the plans?
Greetings,
Martijn
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Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:55:26 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [HG] dewit hurdy-gurdy plans
Bonjour Martin ,
We did use those plans , they need adjustments but the system is good,
here some pictures of them in use at a workshop .
My friend even recorded a CD with his:
http://www.rouesetarchets.s5.com/vent_fr.html
Mainly , it saves time building the sound box , leaving you more
time for the important things : wheel and keyboard .
Henry
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Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 11:58:54 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [HG] dewit hurdy-gurdy plans
More pictures :http://www.prydein.com/vielle/photo2000.html
Henry
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Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 14:40:54 -0700
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] dewit hurdy-gurdy plans
By the way... is "Making and Playing Musical Instruments" by Dewit still out
of print?
--JulieR
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Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:08:35 -0700
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Fw: [BFD] Les Panards Dansants regular and special events
Just in case you happen to be in the UK.....
r.t.
----- Original Message -----
From: "graham knapp" <dancergraham _at_ hotmail.com>
To: <BRETON-FRENCH-DANCE-L _at_ rootsweb.com>
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 10:11 AM
Subject: [BFD] Les Panards Dansants regular and special events
> www.frenchdanceleeds.co.uk
>
> Dear All,
> Our regular meetings have moved place and time!
> this is a quick note to update you on our regular meetings and our FEST
NOZ
> weekend festival in October
>
>
> REGULAR MEETINGS
> Due to venue dificulties we have chosen to move to a much better hall in
> Headinley. This unfortunately means a change of day...
>
> We meet every 3rd THURSDAY of the month - From September
>
> 8 pm - Our musicians offer help with music for the dances + Dancing with
> help from the club members and occasional French and Breton Artists
> 9 pm - Musicians and dancers come together for dancing, singing and music
> 10.30 pm - a glass of wine and a chat to unwind - a chance to get to know
> everyone
>
> Price: Ł2.50 \ Ł2 unwaged
> (includes refreshments at the end)
> You'll find us at:
>
> Headingley Parish Hall
> Junction St. Michael's Road / St. Michael's Lane
> By the Syrack Pub
> Headingley
> Leeds
>
>
>
> MUSIC SESSIONS
> Bring an instrument and/or a voice, or just come to listen at:
> the 'Harmony Room' upstairs in the Cardigan Arms Pub, Leeds
> 8ish - 11ish in the evening
> every 4th monday of the month From September
> 364 Kirkstall Road, opposite the Warner Cinema/McDonalds
> Tune books will be available. For more tunes and song lyrics, see our
> songs/music/dances section For further info, contact
> bruce _at_ frenchdanceleeds.co.uk
>
>
> FEST NOZ
> Breton Weekend to be held 11th-13th October 2002
> In Westfield Lodge, between Oxenhope and Hawarth
> with bands from Brittany
> Loeroů Ruz, Médjan,Tro Breizh
> & Gars du Nord
> Friday night Bal
> Saturday Music and Dance workshops, Saturday night Fest-Noz
> Sunday workshops and dance,
> Breton pancakes & cider and more.......
>
> All the details, as ever, are on
>
> www.frenchdanceleeds.co.uk
>
> dancergraham _at_ hotmail.com
>
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 17:04:00 EDT
From: DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com
Subject: [HG] Question about C/C#, B/Bb stop
After waiting over two years my hurdy gurdy just arrived and I hope to
make it sing someday. I ordered it in the key of D/G because I play
predominantly celtic-oriented music.
Question: The last stop in the upper row can be tuned to either C or C#
(and on the C/G gurdies I guess it would be the B/Bb stop). If this is a
chromatic instrument why?? Is there a reason why the 2 notes share the
same stop. For example, if I were playing a tune in the key of D, then
that stop would be tuned to C#, but if the following tune was in the key
of G, then I would have to re-tune that stop to C natural. I appreciate
your help.
I've had a similar problem with my bowed psaltery. The lowest note is G
and the next note is A. Although it's chromatic there is no G# note, but
there are G# notes in the following octaves. I saw the buliders at a
recent crafts fair and they could not give me a reason why the G# is not
there. It's a minor inconvenience, but I would appreciate any
enlightenment as to why the reasoning.
Thank you,
Jake Conte
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 16:25:48 -0500
From: arle lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] Question about C/C#, B/Bb stop
I'm going to hazard a guess here that the spacing on your upper notes was
getting so tight that both the C and the C# wouldn't fit in with the
tangent and key dimensions of your instrument. On my tekerő I have a
similar situation that forces me to tune my highest tangent up to E
rather than D. The spacing is so tight compared to the key dimensions
that if I tune it down the tangents collide. In this case I don't mind
because the E is the dominant and I actually would use it more than the
D. (I could tune to a D#/Eb, but even in Hungarian music that is
infrequently used.)
As far as your psaltery there is no reason why that should be. My wife's
psaltery is fully chromatic over 2 octaves plus a fifth and misses no
notes. No chromatic psaltery I have ever seen before leaves out notes
that way. I think your instrument is an oddity.
-Arle
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Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 23:05:52 +0200
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Question about C/C#, B/Bb stop
Hello,
DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com wrote:
>After waiting over two years my hurdy gurdy just arrived and I hope
>to make it sing someday. I ordered it in the key of D/G because I
>play predominantly celtic-oriented music.
>
>Question: The last stop in the upper row can be tuned to either C
>or C# (and on the C/G gurdies I guess it would be the B/Bb stop).
On a G/C (that is what it usually is) its a F/F# stop (key).
> If this is a chromatic instrument why?? Is there a reason why the
>2 notes share the same stop.
First its the usual traditional way of vielle making (other keyboards
have even fewer notes).
Second it causes quite some displacement of the keys against the key
slides to include both notes on a 34.5 cm instruments keyboard. Some
makers concider this as being to fragile since the lever between key and
keyslide gets bigger and the wooden material, especially the continous
grain of wood get fewer.
Third the space for and between the keyslides gets very narrow, so the
slides have to be small to allow one more key. Again this weakens the
keyboard. It also limits the adjustment of the tangents so that tuning
gets problematic and relies on a very precise position of the bridge a
very well calculated keyboard design etc.
But yes there are keyboard designs which include both pitches on
separate keys used by some makers, on instruments with longer open
melody-strings but also on 34.5 cm (I know 34.5 cm instruments wich
include also the E and one which also has the F - equaling the A and Bb
on the G/C instrument).
I think 'no C' (no key for C in the ditonic row of keys - 'no F' on the
G/C instrument) is still the common standard. The addititional key is
technically possible and 'state of art' but it is still treated as an
extra which you have to ask for and eventually have to pay for like for
other extras.
regards
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 10:58:44 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Flemish style ,
From conversations , outside of this list , I came to the conclusion
that many people are under the impression that the instrument designed
by Herman Dewit was some kind of modern gizmo .
Actually it is a recent version of a very old design , the relation
with the
Henry III style ( called "vielle Normande " in french ) should be
obvious .
I also found this picture :http://www.coog.com/hurdy1.jpg
from this w -site :http://www.coog.com/mmhgurdys.htm
In the book : " La Vielle a Roue " by Luce Moďses,
( éditions la renaissance du livre , 1986)
there are also pictures of similar instruments , museum pieces and
paintings , mostly dated to the XVIII th century .
Some museum pieces are much decorated .
There is also another style , from the same time and area ,
with curved sides and strange sound board , made of two flat
pieces of wood joined at an angle , but with the same peg box
as Mr Dewit 's design .
Jacque Fettweis made a reproduction of such an instrument and
used it on the " Zunant Planket " record ( 33 rpm ) where he plays
with Remy Dubois ( the bagpipe maker ).
I wish somebody could make me a copy of this record .
Of the soap box now, thank you for your attention .
Henry Boucher
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Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 21:05:36 +0200
From: Marc Reymen <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [HG] Flemish style ,
Hello,
I''m from Belgium ,the country of Herman Dewit, so I feel I have to answer
this:
Of course there are other models ..Thanks God.
What makes this Mr Dewit so great is that he made his drawings in a time
there wasn't anything else.
few people new about the instrument
He searched in old papers and museums, he made a trip of a few years in a
horse wagon trough the country to listen to old people about the songs
and the music.
For the Flemish folkmusic he was a gift of God himself.
Even now ,when so much is already done for the HG and his music,people ask
again and again for this design.
I think that proves it's a good instrument and it's possible to built
whithout to much problems.
It's a pitty that to much people think that the only description is in the
book "making musical instruments " whitch he wrote together with
Botermans.
There exists a whole book of some 100 pages about the building a HG
including a good technical plan on building two models. Much more
elaborated and documentated whith a lot of photo's and good tips
Unfortunnaly only in flemish....
If someone should be interested mail me via the group or
reymen _at_ pandora.be
Henry Boucher wrote:
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 15:22:14 -0700
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Book,
Hi Marc ,
Is this book still available ?
I could use the drawings , I hope yopu would help me with the text
.......
Henry Boucher
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Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 22:13:47 +0200
From: Marc Reymen <reymen _at_ pandora.be>
Subject: Re: [HG] Book,
Hello,
That book is not avalable anymore but....
I asked mr dewit a week ago whether he would agree if there was someone
who wants to make a translation not only for the city but for the
world...
He hes no problems whith it but ...
The book is written some years ago so not exactly up to date.
- Herman nows that somethings can be done better now
- the copywright on this book is not whith him anymore but whith "
vereniging voor Huismuziek"
So I 'll kontakt them...
The drawing i have to so.....
Please send me your adress so we can arange things...
Marc
reymen _at_ pandora.be
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 07:58:49 +0200 (CEST)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: [HG] Flemish style ,
--- Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Jacque Fettweis made a reproduction of such an
> instrument and
> used it on the " Zunant Planket " record ( 33 rpm )
> where he plays
> with Remy Dubois ( the bagpipe maker ).
> I wish somebody could make me a copy of this
> record .
Well
I should have a tape of this record and I can make a
copy of it for you, if you can't find anything better
than this.
Ciao
=====
Marcello Bono
my hurdy-gurdy page is
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/1045
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 09:10:12 -0400
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: [HG] St. Chartier
Isn't ANYBODY going to tell the less fortunate
of us what went on at the festival?
judith
Judith Lindenau,CAE, RCE
Executive Vice President
Traverse Area Association of Realtors
www.taar.com
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Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 20:43:03 +0100
From: Mark J Hewitt <m.hewitt _at_ computer.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] St. Chartier
Judith Lindenau wrote:
>Isn't ANYBODY going to tell the less fortunate
>of us what went on at the festival?
>
It rained.
:-)
#!/mjh
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:08:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] St. Chartier
> It rained.
Every day, according to RT. He also reported that attendance was fairly
low this year. I'll let him fill in the details.
Alden
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 13:26:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: John <maya_dude _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] St. Chartier
To all:
It did rain ( "just a bit " ), in fact the Yankina Rupkina concert was
canceled after a few numbers for safety reasons. The Breton group "Ti
JAZ" never did make it on stage.
The fete was more low key than in recent years. There was a great
scandanavian group (FOP) that was performing on one of the small stages.
Of course the hot new group was (Red dog / Green Dog ). This quartet
features Mike York on bagpipes and Joel Turk on Vielle.
These guys won a duets medal at the Concours.
This is all I remember at the moment. Any other comments R.T. .
John Meador
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 23:51:49 +0100
From: Mark J Hewitt <m.hewitt _at_ computer.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] St. Chartier
OK, I was being a bit facetious there.
These are the things I remember.
The "Angry Italian with 'Gurdy" (Lou Dalfin) made so much noise, I
expect it could have been heard back here in England. I had losely
arranged to meet Theo, and it was in this concert (in the espace plus)
that we met. Unfortunately, the sound drove Theo eaway to protect his
hearing, and I, well, what did you say..? Never did meet up with Theo
again after that. We'll try again someday.
We sat in for the start of the Yanka Rupkina concert. This might have
turned out to be good, if a lightning strike didn't kill the sound
system, And the rain? Yes, it was very wet. We left before it was
actually called off.
There was an interesting Nunavik ("Katajjaq") singing duet.
Unfortunately, this was off site and tickets were limited, so we
missed this. They did a short apettite whetter on stage, and I now know
I would have liked to have been there :-(.
We had been looking forward to "Festinamus" - a medieval band playing in
the church. The music was good, and it was well attended and, as ever,
became very hot. For my tastes, Floreal Navarro's semi-sung narrative
was just a bit contrived (Anyone remember the recording of Ordo Virtutum
by Sequentia ? It was of a similar style.) Nevertheless, I filled a
minidisk with this, and enjoyable it still is.
As ever, the great Jean Corti had the whole audience singing and
clapping for nearly 2 hours of uninterrupted accordeon. That man must
have some pectorals...
Following him, the Irish band Lunasa won a convert of my 9 year old son
(who until then had read or game-boy'd, or made paper darts through
most of the concerts. We bought all their CDs on site, and the car is
now turing shamrock green inside...
Well, it is some years since I last heard a Quebecoise band, and Le
Volee d'Castors were every note as I remember the genre: loud, brash,
musical and xenophobically anti English. Enormous fun, but probably
required slightly more beer than I could justify for the best effect!
There was a brief recitation to the evening audience from Jacques
Grandchamp, but my French was not up to understanding it, but I'm sure
it was important! If anyone would care to tell me what a plastic
hurdy-gurdy was doing there, I'd love to know.
Finally, the best of the whole event is the ad-hoc sessions, the friends
made and re-united, the overwhelming union of folks hell bent on having
a good time, at no-one elses expense (except the Lou Dalfin's assault on
my auditory system), all with common interests, if not a common language.
OK, not quite finally - I met up again with my friend Koen, tried some
instruments out on the makers' stands together, and I even bought one!
Thanks Koen, and when I get good enough in G, we must play together
someday!
#!/mjh
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