Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List - December 2002
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Our deepest thanks to Maxou Heintzen for this fabulous photograph, taken at Saint-Cloud near Paris in 1957 by an unknown photographer.
The following are the archives of the Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List, sponsored by Alden and Cali Hackmann of Olympic Musical Instruments.
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Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 12:30:49 +0000
From: Matthew Williams <mattwill75 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] Re: scales and fingering
> John Roberts wrote: Muskett uses what _I_ consider standard, index =
1.
I can't be the first person to have commented that 'index = 1' is pretty
confusing for a piano player who's programmed that index = 2! I suppose
the answer is forget the piano, we're talking hg.
Matthew
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Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 14:29:16 +0100
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: scales and fingering
Hello,
I think, the point is to work out if there is a kind of standard or
pseudo-standard for hurdy gurdy notation in existence, formed by what is
usual and common. At this point of the discussion 'index = 1' seems to
be the common sense in terms of 'used by the majority of sources' and
'pinky = 1' a well established but minor position.
So far I will go on using 'index = 1' until further notice and ask
others to do the same unless they have reason to be convinced that
'pinky = 1' is better.
Creating a new standard like 'index = 2' is to my belive far out of the
possibilities of this mailing list.
Regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
--
... , aus zeitmangel und infolge widriger verhaeltnisse verlaesst die
mehrzahl der menschen diese welt, ohne ueber sie nachgedacht zu haben.
Einigen wiederum, die das zu tun versuchen, wird schwindelig, und sie
beschaeftigen sich mit etwas anderem.
Stanislaw Lem, Hundertsiebenunddreissig Sekunden
http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/
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Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 15:14:03 +0100
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: learning methods in general Re: [HG] Re: scales and fingering
Hello,
I just came accross the german translation of this site:
http://members.aol.com/chang8828/contents.htm
to me it seems that this could be a ery useful source for al thouse who
want to improof their learnig and practicing. Info about how to learn,
sightreading, breathing, a lot of elementary knowledge on the physical
side of playing an instrument. its a piano school but much of it is
relevant for the hurdy gurdy too.
Regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
--
http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/
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Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 12:07:41 -0500
From: Arle Lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: scales and fingering
French piano scores in the 1800s often used the index = 1 notation, with
an x for the thumb. Growing up playing piano in the US I do find it
rather confusing to sit down with one of these scores, but the prevalence
of that variant in French scores printed in the 1800s may account, at
least in part, for its prevalence in HG notations.
(For examples of this in piano look at Gottschalk's piano tunes published
in France during his European residence - 1840s, if I recall correctly.
Apparently the 1 - 5 notation for piano was growing in acceptance while
Gottschalk was resident in Europe - some of his works use the x - 1 - 2 -
3 - 4 system and others use the 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 system. All of his
U.S.-published works that I have seen used the 1 - 5 system.)
Whatever reasons may exist for one system or the other - and people could
argue all day about the superiority of one system over the other and
probably muster very logical and informed reasons - I think the best
thing would be to see what people are comfortable with. If one found that
80% of HG players preferred one method to another that would be a strong
argument.
My experience, for what it is worth, is that on HG the x - 4 system makes
more sense. Even though piano was and is my "primary" instrument, I can
distinguish piano from HG easily enough and I am used to playing wind
instruments where index = 1 makes more sense than thumb = 1. For those
coming from a string background index = 1 also makes more sense (I played
cello and bass).
-Arle
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Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 15:19:59 -0800
From: Pat Nelson <pjs3ds _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Forro
Hi Richard,
I wish I did have some recorded music of forro with hurdy gurdy. I only
have a knowledgable friend's word on it. He told me that during the time of
slavery in Brazil, some of the slave masters organized music "for all" which
was a mixture of the Western instruments and the African ones. Non-English
speaking folks pronounced "for all" as "forro". Into this new mix, a group
of immigrants introduced their hurdy gurdies. I believe he said the HG
players were from the Northwest of Spain just above Portugal. I'll ask him
about it again.
I do have some CD's of a group called Wajjo from Alberta, Canada, who
combine bag pipe with African percussion. I really like the effect, and it's
not hard to imagine a hurdy gurdy in the bag pipe part. The HG has an
advantage over the bag pipe, because it can add to the percussion as well
as play melody.
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Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 19:40:37 -0800
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: Musette
Has anyone a suggestion as to where I look to find recordings where the
Musette is either featured or a part of the ensemble? Thanks, Joan
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Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 19:42:52 -0800
From: Patricia Lipscomb <hurdygurdygirl _at_ molehaven.com>
Subject: [HG] simon
Sorry to write through the list but I'm trying to reach Simon Wascher and
when I try to go through his website my mail is returned.
Simon, could you please contact me at hurdygurdygirl _at_ molehaven .com?
Thanks,
Trish Lipscomb
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Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 23:06:27 -0500
From: Allan Janus <allan.janus _at_ verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: Musette
There are two CDs by the ensemble Les Festes Galantes, with
Jean-Christophe Maillard on the musette - "Oeuvres pour Musette"
(Valois V 4625) and "Musiques Utiles aux Mélancholiques" - music of
Michel Corrette (Jecklin-Disco 616-2). Both recordings are pretty old,
and I wonder if they're still in print - worth hunting for, though. If
you can't find them, contact me off-list.
Allan Janus
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Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 21:51:25 -0800
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] [Windows-1252] A VENDRE vielle à roue
An illness that took way too long to recover from has kept me from
posting messages for a long time.
So now I will have to make up for lost time.
Here is a start.
r.t.
__________________________________________________
Here is a Vielle that is for sale, listed on this web site
http://www.cmtra.org/annonces.html
A VENDRE vielle à roue en sol, ronde, belle esthétique, 1380 euros +
vielle Boudet en sol, copie Jenzat, 1830 euros, visibles à St Maurice en
Gourgois (Sud Loire). Rens. 04 77 50 36 06
bgoldenstein _at_ free.fr
__________________________________________________
I found out about this by looking at the French Fourm des vielleux at
http://www.ifrance.com/_forum/?ForumName=forumvielle
One big difference between our HG list and the French one is that their
message a VERY short.
My French is so bad that I would be too embarrassed to post a message on
their fourm to let them know about our HG list.
Maybe someone else might be brave and post a message.
Although there are not many postings, there are some interesting posts
and I think that you will find it interesting.
r.t.
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Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 22:06:31 -0800
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Does anyone know Sébastien Tron?
I know that there is a movie called TRON.
It is the 20th anniversary of is making, buy the DVD and maybe they will
make a sequel. And no, I am not the Richard Taylor in movies credits.
People get us confused that is why I am called R.T. Taylor...... just a
bit of Special Effects history for you.
Now onto the real stuff.........
Does anyone know this Professeur mentioned here, Sébastien Tron?
From http://www.cmtra.org/stagesateliers/Atelierscmtra.html
Vielle à roue : Travail technique des mains gauche et droite,
dissociation des deux mains, écoute musicale, travail de l'oreille,
théorie et harmonie musicale. Acquérir des réflex méthodiques pour un
apprentissage de plus en plus autonome, et développer ainsi son propre
jeu, tout en encourageant la pratique et l'écoute de la musique avec tout
type de musiciens.Travail individuel et collectif, répertoire
traditionnel et contemporain (ou sur demande)
Professeur : Sébastien Tron
Cours le mercredi de 20h00 à 21h30 (hebdomadaire) à l'école de musique de
Saint-fons
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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:44:30 +0100
From: Lauwers.P <Lauwers.P _at_ itc.mil.be>
Subject: [HG] RE: [HG] A VENDRE vielle à roue
R.T.
I've done the French part!
Pieter Lauwers
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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 14:42:27 +0100 (CET)
From: marcello bono <lyra_mendicorum _at_ yahoo.it>
Subject: Re: [HG] Forro
--- Pat Nelson <pjs3ds _at_ hotmail.com> wrote:
> I wish I did have some recorded music of forro with
> hurdy gurdy.
I missed some posts about hurdy-gurdy and forro.
As far as I know the word SANFONA in Brazilian means a
kind of accordion and NOT the hurdy-gurdy, as it
happens in other European languages.
I had a conversation with the famous Brazialian guitar
player Egberto Gismonti about this subject, more than
20 years ago.
He gave me several information about "forro" too, I
just need to find my notebook....
=====
Marcello Bono
Bologna-Italy
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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 09:39:12 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: RE: [HG] Forro
Little etymological note: and "zanfona" in Spanish speaking Latin America
means the Andean pan-pipe, not HG...muy curioso!
:^)
Happy Hanukah and Ramadan Mubarak to those celebrating,
Vlad
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wolodymyr Joseph Smishkewych
Departmental Administrative Assistant
Department of Voice
Indiana University School of Music
Merrill Hall 105
Bloomington, IN 47401
Tel: +1 (812) 855 2057
Fax: +1 (812) 855 4936
voicedep _at_ indiana.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 18:12:59 -0300 (ART)
From: marcos kaiser mori <kaisermori _at_ yahoo.com.br>
Subject: Re: [HG] Forro
Hi, Pat, Richard and hg folks. I am very sorry for not reading these
posts before. I am currently very busy working, and the instrument making
is taking all my time.
I live in Brazil, and the HG has been my object of studies.
Unfortunately for my research, the HG disappeared a long time ago from
this country. Initially the priests (the jesuits-17th c.) came with
instruments. For the indians, the plucked stringed instruments worked
very well, as shown by the living performance practices of harp,
"charango"( version of the baroque guitar) and a variety of guitar-bodied
instruments. The apport of these european instruments created a vivid
tradition of what is called Colonial Baroque. ( For those living in
Europe: The south-american indians playing in the metro stations are in a
funny way bringing back to europe the baroque music and playing tecniques
they learned from those priests).
In Brazil, colonized with the help of the jesuits, the HG is believed
to be part of that arsenal for cristianization. After this, no more
recordings of any kind where found, with the exception of a kind of
"orgue de barbarie" called realejo. In the north-east part of the
country, colonized by the Dutch, rebecs and strange stringed instruments
can be found, like a kind of vielle with continuous string (the end of
the string is glued to the initial part).
In Portugal the instrument also disappeared a long time ago, and only a
few ones survived in museums.
The "Forro" word is a later invention, created in the towns, with the
influences of various musical traditions, around the 20th c.. The
instruments for the Forro de Raiz, (or the most traditional variety) are
a triangle, a Zabumba ( a large drum) and a Sanfona (the Accordion).
The music uses medieval verse forms, still used today. The scales are
modal, mostly "mixolidium", and the repertoire is transmitted by oral
tradition.
Here in Sao Paulo, we have contact with the traditions of the
North-east by means of the jongleurs who come often to perform their
puppetry and music on the streets, improvising in 11-syllabe verses and
playing their instruments. Nowadays it is also very fashionable to go to
forro dancing, but the groups are creating a more "urban" version of it.
The legend about "for all" and "forro" came to me as a joke:
During the 2nd world war the Americans had a base in the coast, from
where they lauched attacks to Africa. The for all parties were given by
the american soldiers then.
Hope to contribute with the discussion. Best regards, Marcos
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Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 23:53:14 +0100
From: René Meeuws <meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl>
Subject: Re: [HG] Forro
Hi list,
This is a little bit off topic. There exist a fantastic CD with ancient
Brazilian music, both indigenous and colonial:
Amazônica, by Camerata Cantione Antiqua & Angaatãnãmú
(conductor: Miguel Kertsman); Sony Classical SK 62882.
Indeed without hurdy gurdy, but with dozens of traditional instruments
from Sout America and Europe.
René Meeuws
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Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 20:34:10 -0800
From: Pat Nelson <pjs3ds _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Forro
Thanks Marcos and everybody who replied about forro. It has been an
interesting and informative discussion, even though I'd like to think the
hurdy gurdy played more of a role in Brazilian music.
Sincerely, Pat
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Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 08:40:13 -0500
From: Arle Lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: [HG] Re: [OT] Forro
For what it is worth in this discussion, groups in Brazil that emphasize
historical Brazilian music don't use HG. Anima, for example, is a
wonderful group the plays mostly on reproduction historical instruments
and "primitive" instruments made way out in the back country of Brazil
(e.g., modern folk rebecs that are very similar to the Baroque rebecs).
They certainly don't use HG, at least in what I have heard, although some
of their pieces would be suitable for HG given that they will use rebec
string drones for short segments.
Marcos' point about South Americans having preserved Baroque music
features lost elsewhere is correct. Anima is a case in point. Although
they are deliberately archaic, they are in a Brazilian folk tradition
that most people outside of South America will never hear. In some of
their numbers they sound like a lively Baroque ensemble (many people call
that an oxymoron!), with some serious African-influenced drumming going
on.
- Arle
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Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 06:27:22 -0800
From: Pat Nelson <pjs3ds _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: [OT] Forro
Arle wrote:
>Anima, for example, is a wonderful
>group the plays mostly on reproduction historical instruments and
>"primitive" instruments made way out in the back country of Brazil
Arle,
Where could I find a recording by Anima? Do you know what label they record
on? I'd love to hear them.
Pat
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Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 10:07:46 -0500
From: Arle Lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>, Pat Nelson <pjs3ds _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: [OT] Forro
I only have one Anima CD. The one I have is called Espiral do Tempo. It was
recorded in 1997 but no date is given for actual release. The label is Sony
Brazil.
Anima is somewhat hard to find, but a large book store such as Borders or
Barnes & Nobel could order it, as could most record shops I suppose. If you
go to the following link you will be able to find the various Anima releases
on Amazon:
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=music-artist&fiel
d-artist=Anima/103-9280129-9109426>
If that is broken across more than one line, make sure you paste all of it
into historical instruments and
[[missing]]?
>> "primitive" instruments made way out in the back country of Brazil
>
>
> Arle,
>
> Where could I find a recording by Anima? Do you know what label they record
> on? I'd love to hear them.
>
> Pat
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>
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Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:20:28 -0800
From: Pat Nelson <pjs3ds _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Forro
Arle,
Thanks for all the info. I can't wait to listen to my new Anima CD I've
ordered from Amazon.
Pat
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Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 10:49:46 -0800
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Slider Straps
HI. Just go a catalog fron Andy's and noticedthe slider strap is
availabe in two sizes for $24.95. That's a good price. They are
www.andysfronthall.com . Ihave ordered from them before and are quite
nice to deal with. They also have Nigel Eaton's new recording
Pandemonium:Music for the HG for $17.95.
Joan
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Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 11:15:14 -0800
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: Musette
Thanks Allen. I am busy looking for them. If I find them, I will post a
source. If not, I will contact you. Joan
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Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 11:21:55 -0800
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: retuning, scales and fingering
Hello. Whereis a good place to find Laurent B's book? Thanks. Joan
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Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 11:58:47 -0800
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Cotton
Hi Katie. Happy thanksgiving. Where did you find the silk cottoning
material in Seattle. THX Joan
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Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 15:23:09 EST
From: Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] [Windows-1252] A VENDRE vielle à roue
Sorry to hear you've been ill, RT. Nothing too serious I hope? Flu?
Etc?
Glad you're better and posting again. I thought you were awfully
quiet...
Felicia.
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Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:38:00 -0800
From: "Roe, Katie" <Katie.Roe _at_ wizards.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Cotton
I don't remember the name of the store, but it is a weaving supply store
just down the street from Half-Price Books in the U-District.
Katie
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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 14:10:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: RE: [HG] Cotton
It's the Weaving Works, 4717 Brooklyn NE, Seattle.
Alden F.M. Hackmann darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Web: http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html
"Beati illi qui in circulum circumeunt, fient enim magnae rotae."
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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 17:14:31 EST
From: HobgoblinH _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Cotton
Thanks so much, Alden.
Alice
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Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 19:30:41 EST
From: DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Slider Straps
I can't seem to find the slider strap on the web site.
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Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:48:08 +0000
From: richard.lewis _at_ bookseller.co.uk
Subject: [HG] Re: [OT] Forro
Pat
thanks for the Anima info; sorry I am late in replying, have been away.
Richard
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Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 10:05:59 -0800
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] should you be in town
Hey R.T., Sharon and I are performing as 'Stop S'il Vous Plait' this
Sunday evening, it should be fun (and it's free!), if you are in town and
would like to go, here are the details:
Dear Lovely Beautifuls,
ROCK THE MANGER CHRISTMAS PAGEANT WITH SMELLS LIKE FLAN!!! If you've
never come to a Flan show, tonight is the night as the tough women of
freaky-femme fun, Smells Like Flan, host a glittering extravaganza on
Dec. 8th 7:00pm sharp at MR T's Bowl in Highland Park. It will be an
amazing night of eclectic music, featuring the sights and sounds of:
G.O.D. Wanna
Garanto
Stop S'il Vous Plait
The Monolators
Kedron & Eric of Menthol Hill
eUPhrosne the belly dancing sensation from another land
The Wedding's Off
and, of course SMELLS LIKE FLAN!!!
Witness historical re-enactments! Behold a vision of the Virgin Mary and
her son!!! Meet the ARchangel Gabriel. Write your own letter to George
W. which will be sent to D.C.!!!
It's a free show, although we kindly request donations that will be sent
to Heifer International, an organization which sends livestock, seed and
training to families of third-world nations.
SEE YOU ALL THERE.
Sunday Dec. 8th _at_ MR T'S BOWL 5621 1/2 nOrth Figueroa in Highland Park.
323-256-7561 SHOWTIME 7:00PM SHARP.
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Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 11:21:45 -0800
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] should you be in town
Ooops! Sorry gang, my previous message was meant for R.T. Taylor's
shell-like ears only. But now you all know about it, come on over if you
are in town (Los Angeles)
Juan
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Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 16:06:00 -0800
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Slider Straps
Hmmmm????? It's in the catalog on page four. they call it the Slider
Dual shoulder Strap. It is number A/SLIDER Medium or A/SLIDER Short.
Both list for $24.95. They sell buttons for a dollar with it. Their
order line is 1-800-759-4193. I will check the on-line cat. as well.
Joan
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Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 16:12:16 -0800
From: Joan D'Andrea <jeepstr42 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Slider Straps
Hi. I went to the Andysfronthall site. Check under Autoharp
Accessories. They have a pretty good drawing of it that shows the system
in the back. Joan
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Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2002 20:28:08 EST
From: DISKJAKEY _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Slider Straps
Hi Joan,
And this autoharp slider strap will work for the hurdy gurdy also? If
so, I will order one.
Thank you,
Jake
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Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 16:30:07 -0800
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Pluck that that Hurdy Gurdy !
And I thought that I was making a joke when I told people that I was
going to build a Hurdy Gurdy that had little pieces of plastic on the
edge of the wheel to pluck the string just like I used to do when I
attached playing cards onto my bicycle so that they would make an
interesting sound as the spokes moved past the cards.
Check out this "plucking" HG on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=928765699
This is some of the text:
This hurdy gurdy does NOT have a rosined wheel but instead uses the more
rare plectrum wheel arrangement--short nylon string picks are epoxied
into the wheel at about 1 inch intervals. The string sounding occurs by
plucking as in the harpsichord. The continuous turning of the handle
creates a fast, strong strum tone that is quite similar to the fast
balalaika playing in "Somewhere My Love." The plectrum wheel is easy to
set up and always works (unlike those fiddly rosined wheels). Of course,
the plectrum wheel is easily removed with one nut and bolt to allow you
to attach your own rosined wheel (simply a very smooth plywood disk that
is impregnated with rosin--simple to construct).
___________________________________________________________
Now I am sure that most of you are going to throw away your rosined
wheels
and change it for one like this. Right ?
r.t.
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Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 20:39:13 -0500
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Pluck that that Hurdy Gurdy !
" Now I am sure that most of you are going to throw away
your rosined wheels
and change it for one like this. Right ? "
r.t.
Of COURSE we are, r.t.--you left out the best part of the
e-bay description: " The plectrum wheel is easy to set up and
always works
(unlike those fiddly rosined wheels). "
Who wants a fiddly rosined wheel anyway?
judith
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Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 19:53:08 -0800
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Pluck that that Hurdy Gurdy !
>
>Now I am sure that most of you are going to throw away your rosined wheels
>and change it for one like this. Right ?
I'm speechless.
Theories as to how this came to be? Somebody with an MM kit who turned the
wheel too far down when trying to true it? A really frustrated guitarist
stuck along on a desert island with only an HG and 2 dozen guitar
picks? The mind boggles...
If the price hadn't already jumped, I'd say we had another candidate for
next year's OTW planter boxes.
Alden
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Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 11:47:10 +0100
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Pluck that that Hurdy Gurdy !
Hello,
Alden & Cali Hackmann wrote:
> >Now I am sure that most of you are going to throw away your rosined wheels
> >and change it for one like this. Right ?
>
> I'm speechless.
>
> Theories as to how this came to be?
> Somebody with an MM kit who turned the
> wheel too far down when trying to true it? A really frustrated guitarist
> stuck along on a desert island with only an HG and 2 dozen guitar
> picks? The mind boggles...
maybe an italian mandolin player with tenosynovitis ?
...by the way, with such an plucked strings device it would be possible
to pre-programme the rhythm you get when playing by just mounting a
selection of plectrums...
OR maybe someone who saw the "Harfen-vielle" (harp-hurdy-gurdy) owned by
the "Sammlung alter Musikinstrumente" in the "Kunsthistorisches Museum"
here in Vienna. This is as far as I know the only historical instrument
(dated 18th century) whith such a sound generation implemented. Its
pictured in the Broecker book (Marianne Broecker, Die Drehleier II
picture 209).
This special instrument has two wheels one behind the ohter (on one
axle). The inner (smaller) one which bowes strings running through an
ordinary keyboard and a second one for plucking the harp-like
(drone?-strings or to be used autoharpa like :-) ). By the way: this is
_NO JOKE_.
The setting is, as one can immagine quite complex: two wheels, meaning
two layers of strings and two bridges one behind the other with a wheel
in between. I doubt if this ever worked well. The instrument looks as if
someone experimented around with it until it came to a final stadium.
regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 12:00:07 +0000
From: richard.lewis _at_ bookseller.co.uk
Subject: Re: [HG] Pluck that that Hurdy Gurdy !
well i really think one of us ought to buy the strum-a-gurdy for research
purposes. naturally i would volunteer myself -- except i note the seller
will only deal wuth US buyers . . .
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Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 07:28:11 -0500
From: Beverly Woods <tradmusic _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Pluck that that Hurdy Gurdy !
Alden wrote:
> Theories as to how this came to be? Somebody with an MM kit who turned the
> wheel too far down when trying to true it? A really frustrated guitarist
> stuck along on a desert island with only an HG and 2 dozen guitar
> picks? The mind boggles...
I once made a trip to a music store in Maine to look at a hurdy gurdy they
had advertised. It turned out to be a kit "instrument" (I use the term
loosely), and though the strings were on it, it was impossible to see any
easy way in which they might align well enough with the wheel to be played -
except if you did something like this.
Beverly
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Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 13:58:04 +0100
From: Helmut Gotschy <Helmut.Gotschy _at_ t-online.de>
Subject: Re: [HG] Pluck that that Hurdy Gurdy !
OK, this is the way to get the gurdy into bluegrass!!
Regards
Helmut
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Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 14:46:29 -0000
From: peter.j.hughes _at_ bt.com
Subject: RE: [HG] Pluck that that Hurdy Gurdy !
It would be nice to have some sound samples!
Given the popularity of plucked instruments of the harpsichord family in the
past I can't really believe nobody has tried this one before. The absence
of historical evidence probably speaks volumes for it's success though...
A while ago I recall reading about a rock guitarist who used a couple of
picks in the chuck of a cordless electric drill as a means of rapidly
plucking his strings. I don't think it ever became a mainstream technique.
Peter.
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Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 07:40:06 -0800
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Pluck that that Hurdy Gurdy !
> Alden said:
> Theories as to how this came to be? Somebody with an MM kit who
> turned the
> wheel too far down when trying to true it? A really frustrated guitarist
> stuck along on a desert island with only an HG and 2 dozen guitar
> picks? The mind boggles...
>
> If the price hadn't already jumped, I'd say we had another candidate for
> next year's OTW planter boxes.
I emailed the fellow to ask him about who built the HG, and this was his
answer: "Hi Julie: This hurdy gurdy was made by me about 10 years ago from
a bunch of kit parts that a relative gave to me. It's very well
constructed: I have BFA and MFA degrees in sculpture and have been a
musician for 28 years. I often scratchbuild instruments and other things...
http://www.geocities.com/scottfranklinhall I don't have any recollection of
the source of the kit parts for this hurdy gurdy. It's a nice instrument,
though. It is a bit basic as you can see--sort of a simple modernization of
certain 18th and 19th century forms of hurdy gurdy. It's been played
several hours in it's 10 year existence. Everything is working well. The
keys move very well--no major wear on them and none are sticky at all."
So there's an answer.
--Julie
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Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 11:13:44 EST
From: GinaPelleena _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Pluck that that Hurdy Gurdy !
I recall reading about a rock guitarist who used a couple of
picks in the chuck of a cordless electric drill as a means of rapidly
plucking his strings. I don't think it ever became a mainstream
technique. <Peter>
Does this mean I should also get on the 'Black & Decker' mailing list?
Signed: A newbie ;o)
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Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 12:00:38 -0500
From: Beverly Woods <tradmusic _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] comments on the type of hg in this picture?
It has been observed that there is a hurdy gurdy player in the lower left of
this picture:
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/images.jsp?artid=215&letter=M&imgid=1273
Marriage Processions Among German Jews, Eighteenth Century.
Source: (From Bodenschatz, "Kirchliche Verfassung," 1748.)
Can anyone comment on what type of HG this is, and the historical accuracy
(or not) of this portrayal? Also, does anyone know anything about HGs being
used in Jewish music historically?
Beverly
--
Beverly Woods
http://www.beverlywoods.net
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Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 19:59:21 +0100
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] comments on the type of hg in this picture?
Beverly Woods wrote:
> It has been observed that there is a hurdy gurdy player in the lower left of
> this picture:
> http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/images.jsp?artid=215&letter=M&imgid=1273
> Marriage Processions Among German Jews, Eighteenth Century.
> Source: (From Bodenschatz, "Kirchliche Verfassung," 1748.)
> Can anyone comment on what type of HG this is, and the historical accuracy
> (or not) of this portrayal? Also, does anyone know anything about HGs being
> used in Jewish music historically?
I belive it is not to blame for histoical accuracy at all. The roundish
basic shape fits to instruments that can be found in drawings and
museums, but there is no detail which may help us further. The hurdy
gurdy has the handle 'on te wrong side' but as it is such instruments
are documented (Marianne Broecker, Die Drehleier II, picture 210).
Maybe on the original print or on a copy with higher resolution one
could find detail that would help further on. As it is in the moment I
would say, yes, its a hurdy gurdy, as the position of the two arms and
hands indicates so, it also has a krank but on an unusual place and it
looks like instruments I know from other pictures. I would not recomend
to start a reconstruction on the data I can get from this picture.
It looks as if the engraver did not have any detail information on it,
at best saw it once from distance and maybe knew it from other printed
sources which were not well in detail (think of an artist of today who
draws an accordeon).
The topos is very common, the crowd of dancers or procession
participants, the other musicians in front.
The woman playing the hurdy gurdy which is a common topos of its own,
the way its all combined seems to be a bit unusual, and it looks as if
she is passed by the procession, and is not part of it herself (?).
In my search for historical hurdy gurdy documents in Austria I could not
find a hint for a special function of the hurdy gurdy in or relation
between hurdy gurdy and jewish traditions and/or culture.
Don't forget hurdy gurdies were common dance music instruments in 18th
century middle Europe and the population of jewish belive was not
separated from people of other religious belive in matters which did not
concern religion.
The desastrous idea of nations had not been invented then.
regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 21:54:08 +0100
From: "[Windows-1252] René Meeuws" <meeuws _at_ msmp.demon.nl>
Subject: Re: [HG] Pluck that that Hurdy Gurdy !
I heard of a plucked hurdy gurdy earlier.
Several years ago a friend of mine made some pictures of a very
particular instrument in the Statliches Museum für Völkerkunde in München
(Maximilianstrasse 42), Germany. So I didn't hear or even see it myself.
The instrument was announced as "Valiha - Hurdy gurdy", Madagascar,
beginning 20th century. The valiha is the national instrument of
Madagascar: bamboo tube, stringed around, plucked (listen to the cd's
Justin Vali made for the Real World label). This valiha in München is
mounted in a big gourd, which functiones as a body. The whole valiha can
be turned around inside the gourd by a crank outside. When turning, four
plectrums in the gourd pluck the strings.
The announcement ends with: "Probably this instrument is an imitation of
the french vielle, which is known in Madagascar since about 1880".
At the moment I have no possibility to show the pictures at the internet.
If someone else can, I will send him or her the scans.
Greetings from Holland (NL),
René Meeuws
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Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 16:18:58 -0500
From: Keith Owen Richards <richards _at_ vif.com>
Subject: [HG] [Windows-1252] Re: posting scans of instrument in Statliches
Museum f[Windows-1252] ür Völkerkunde
René,
You could send me the scans and I will put them on a webpage for the hg
list to see.
Regards,
Keith Owen Richards
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Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 14:11:31 -0800
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [HG] Pluck that that Hurdy Gurdy !
I am all for people re-inventing the wheel. I think this instrument
is a great excercise in following an idea, however limited the final
use of such an instrument is. Thanks Julie for passing on the maker's
website, it's a lot of fun and well worth the visit. Here it is again
: http://www.geocities.com/scottfranklinhall
Juan
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Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 20:13:20 EST
From: HobgoblinH _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] comments on the type of hg in this picture?
Guys, that's not the only musical oddity in the picture. I play viola da
gamba. Notice the fellow standing up, walking even, while playing the viola
da gamba?-- it just don't happen. No way. It's like a very classy film of
Hamlet I saw earlier this fall, and one of the musicians was playing the
tromba marina like a guitar or a cello, I forget which. But I had to laugh.
Everything else in the film was very well done.
Alice
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Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 20:43:50 -0500
From: Allan Janus <allan.janus _at_ verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] comments on the type of hg in this picture?
I know of one other artistic representation of that sort of thing,
Alice. I recently bought a CD of European Klezmer music, and the cover
features a painting of a shtetl procession, led by a group of
musicians. Prominent among 'em is a fellow marching with a cello:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004RJX3.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
And Woody Allen plays the cello in a marching band in "Take the Money
and Run" - or was it "Bananas"? Not well, of course...
Allan Janus
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 21:53:01 -0500
From: Beverly Woods <tradmusic _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] comments on the type of hg in this picture?
> I know of one other artistic representation of that sort of thing,
> Alice. I recently bought a CD of European Klezmer music, and the cover
> features a painting of a shtetl procession, led by a group of
> musicians. Prominent among 'em is a fellow marching with a cello:
>
> http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00004RJX3.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
>
That's a great album (even if it has no HG.) I have to say that marching
with a cello has gotta be slightly less dangerous than hanging the tsimbl
around your neck (of course some people really do that...I always imagine
those gypsy caravans full of chiropractors...)
Beverly
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Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 21:52:35 -0800
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [HG] comments on the type of hg in this picture?
This way of holding the cello is common in Polish folk
music , the strap goes around the neck of the instrument , under the
"board-that-would-be -a-fretboard-if-there-were-frets-on -it "
( sorry , I do not know the english name of that part ), then in the
outside cutaway and around the shoulder of the player .
In the renaissance there was an instrument called " church cello "
with two holes in the back to slip a rope , to carry it in processions .
Those holes were later filled when the instrument lost its original function .
Henry Boucher
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Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 21:14:23 -0800
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] comments on the type of hg in this picture?
I know a woman who has a cello with a wheel projecting from where the
spike is normally attached, this allows her to walk about and play
( on a smooth floor) which she does twice a night working for Cirque
du Soleil. Is this possibly a viol a roue?
Juan
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 00:55:02 EST
From: HobgoblinH _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] comments on the type of hg in this picture?
In a message dated 12/9/2002 8:54:22 PM Central Standard Time,
boite _at_ sympatico.ca writes:
<< This way of holding the cello is common in Polish folk
music , the strap goes around the neck of the instrument , under the
"board-that-would-be -a-fretboard-if-there-were-frets-on -it "
( sorry , I do not know the english name of that part ), then in the
outside cutaway and around the shoulder of the player .
In the renaissance there was an instrument called " church cello "
with two holes in the back to slip a rope , to carry it in processions . >>
Wow!
Alice
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 02:34:22 EST
From: Cruikshank44 _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Pluck that that Hurdy Gurdy !
In a message dated 12/8/02 5:45:05 PM, judith _at_ taar.com writes:
Who wants a fiddly rosined wheel anyway?
That's what I was trying to say!
Felicia.
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Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 09:55:02 +0000
From: richard.lewis _at_ bookseller.co.uk
Subject: Re: [HG] comments on the type of hg in this picture?
that's a great picture; I can't tell if the guy in the very tall hat is
playing a cymbalom or selling ice cream
richard
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Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 06:04:41 -0500
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] comments on the type of hg in this picture?
Very funny! I was going to mention her....I saw her performance,
and it was great. But I wasn't sure how she did it...she just glided
by and I thought I was seeing things.
judith
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Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 08:56:20 -0500
From: Keith Owen Richards <richards _at_ vif.com>
Subject: [HG] [Windows-1252] Re: Valiha in Statliches Museum für
Völkerkunde in[Windows-1252] München
The valiha discussed in René's post (below) can be viewed online at:
http://www.vif.com/users/richards/Valiha.htm
If that link does not work well with your browser, you can see each
picture individually at the following URLs:
http://www.vif.com/users/richards/Valiha1.jpg
http://www.vif.com/users/richards/Valiha2.jpg
http://www.vif.com/users/richards/Valiha3.jpg
And while you're there, if you'd like an additional moment's distraction,
why not see what I think is the finest example of hockey goalie mask
airbrushing ever (and it just so happens it's my mask):
http://www.vif.com/users/richards/z.jpg
Enjoy the photos of the valiha.
Keith Owen Richards
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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 07:08:15 -0500
From: Michele JavaTime <michelejavatime _at_ juno.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] comments on the type of hg in this picture?
Have any of you ever seen the Philadelphia Mummers Parade on New Year's
Day?
These guys march a miles-long parade route with a full double bass viol!
In sub-zero temperatures, yet!
Michele McCann
Hurdy-Gurdy Player...Celtic/Cajun/French Musician
DJ on WVUD 91.3 FM 6-9AM Weds. www.wvud.org
National Award Winning Résumé Writer
Certified Job & Career Transition Coach
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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 07:00:07 -0500
From: Michele JavaTime <michelejavatime _at_ juno.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] comments on the type of hg in this picture?
Au contraire regarding the stationary (not walking) viola player.
I remember quite well myself on clarinet, a piper, and a viola player
serenading my friend and her newborn while walking to her car from a home
gathering.
quite beautiful and touching really....
Michele
Michele McCann
Hurdy-Gurdy Player...Celtic/Cajun/French Musician
DJ on WVUD 91.3 FM 6-9AM Weds. www.wvud.org
National Award Winning Résumé Writer
Certified Job & Career Transition Coach
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 18:17:16 -0800
From: Fiddlers <mdfiddler _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Re: Valiha in Statliches Museum f ür Völkerkunde in
München
absolutely wonderful photos - of the instrument and the mask! Thank you for
putting these online! Marjy
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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:59:38 +0000
From: Olivia Mackay <celtic_elves _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] I'd really recommend this book for gurdy players
I have had my Christmas a little early this year, and one book that I'd
really recommend for hurdy gurdy and bagpipe players is "The Lost Dances of
Earthly Delights". This 4CD (203 tunes) and 164 page book set also contains
sheet music for all the tunes, dance instructions and more! I have tried
lots of the tunes already on my hurdy gurdy - they fit sooooo well :-) I
have always liked the bands Pyewackett and Blowzabella ...well, I have to
say that Earthly Delights came across even better on the 4 CDs, which were
attached to the inside covers of the book. Much research has been done by
the Australian author John Garden - and I was able to order this lot cheaply
here in the US because the Australian dollar (it comes from Australia) is so
low compared to our currency.
I'd really recommend this production - I can't speak too highly of it. The
webpage where I came across it is http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/cds.htm
Olivia M.
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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 09:02:25 -0500
From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] I'd really recommend this book for gurdy players
I second the nomination. It's fun music!
judith
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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:33:56 -0500
From: A.J. Bashore II <noizmkr _at_ dcweblink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] I'd really recommend this book for gurdy players
Olivia Mackay wrote:
...well, I have to say that Earthly Delights came across even better on
the 4 CDs, which were attached to the inside covers of the book. Much
research has been done by the Australian author John Garden...I'd really
recommend this production - I can't speak too highly of it. The webpage
where I came across it is http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/cds.htm
Folks,
Two years ago I bought a bunch of copies to give to friends for the
Holidays. I find the book very entertaining and humorous. I at first
thought the history to be a rare find but realize now that it is very
tongue in cheek. The music delicious. Were I a dancer, I am sure the
dances would be extremely delightful. I just love the whole package and
for me the Gardens are wonderful email friends.
This year their new Christmas Carol book is just out. Some of my lucky
friends will get surprise packages this year. No CD's of music, but
filled with great songs, accurate and true history, and newly written
dances. This book is a treat, too.
I hope these productions become standards in the Folk Music and Dance
circles. (Pun unintended.)
In Harmony,
A.J.
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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 23:22:50 -0500
From: Tobie Miller <recorderist _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] flying
A lutenist friend of mine recently flew on Delta, and was told that as of a
month ago, no string instruments are allowed as carry-on, for security
reasons, on this airline anymore. (He had to leave his lute behind.) Has
anyone else had any problems flying lately?
Tobie
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 11:40:41 -0800
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] flying
Dear Tobie and friends,
We flew on Delta in November, took a hurdy-gurdy on-board with us and had
no problems. Security wanted to see it, I assume because of the metal
shaft, but they didn't hassle us at all.
I know that when Graham came over from the UK he had arranged special
permission from the airline and had written documentation that he could
take it on.
Cali Hackmann
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:52:43 -0500
From: Arle Lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: [HG] OT: cows horns
Totally off topic, but does anyone know where I could buy cow's horns for
use in making instruments?
Thanks,
Arle
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 21:02:17 -0000
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] OT: cows horns
Just a thought but in the UK I would suggest the following possible sources
off the top of my head (no I haven't got horns there!).
A farmer - they often saw/remove the horns off young bulls for safety
reasons if it had not been done when a calf and would be happy to give to
you them - probably for nothing (same applies to anywhere bulls are kept).
A slaughterhouse is another possibility - you don't know if you don't ask -
as they supply the third source - hoof and horn fertiliser manufacturers
(address on box).
I know this was for bagpipes but is horn ever used as ornament on a HG?
Colin Hill
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 16:27:48 -0800
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [HG] OT: cows horns
Bonjour Arle ,
If everything else fails :
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/consign_detail.asp?styleID=44&subID=12&catID=1
There are plenty of raw horns for sale at historical re-enactment events
from Middle Ages to Américan Révolution ,
As most people are right handed , there is a heavy demand for the
right side horn ( wich fits better on your right side , when slung
on a strap , used as a powder horn ) so there is a good choice of left side
horns
( but strangely , the price is the same )
In most countries , cattle horns " root " is burned at an early
age for safety reasons , the horns on the market come from
South América or Africa .
Henry Boucher
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:32:18 -0800
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] flying
I fly all the time with my HG and have had no problems at all.
It might just be Delta or it could just be one individual at the airport.
Just as a precaution, call in advance to see what they say about this.
r.t.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 20:37:13 -0600
From: Louise Craig <lcraig _at_ iname.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] OT: cows horns
This has always been my favorite place to get unusual stuff for costumes
I've made. They have all kinds of bits & pieces from the horn to the tail.
http://www.hideandfur.com/inventory/Antlers.html
Louise
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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 19:25:47 -0800
From: Pat Nelson <pjs3ds _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] OT: cows horns
You might try a leather shop. I got my horns from Tandy leather in Seattle,
Wa. It was several years ago, but they had barrels full of them in many
sizes.
Pat
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Date: 12 Dec 2002 21:53:25 -0800
From: Dina Hartzell <dina _at_ spiritone.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] OT: cows horns
Arle,
Les Chalemies, par example?
-Dina
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 09:08:28 -0500
From: Arle Lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>, Dina Hartzell <dina _at_ spiritone.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] OT: cows horns
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions. I have a couple of decent leads
now, and if I can't find anything locally the Moscow Hide and Fur looks
quite good and reasonable priced.
I actually want the cow's horns for bells/resonators on Hungarian bagpipes.
(I also want to make gemshorns some day). Hungarian pipes feature a turned
up (probably non-acoustic) bell on both the bass drone and the variable
contra drone that runs through the chanter. This is traditionally made from
cow horns (although in some cases carved wooden horses took their place, at
least on the chanter).
I saw the buffalo horns on the Moscow site and thought I might use them.
Since this is going to be made in the U.S.A. (out of native California
manzanita) I might perhaps use what would be available natively in the U.S.
I tried to think of how to relate this to HGs, but I don't think anyone
wants me making the Texas Longhorn Hurdygurdy ;-)
-Arle
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:04:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] OT: cows horns
--- Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net> wrote:
> I know this was for bagpipes but is horn ever used as ornament on a
> HG?
I don't know any specific cases, but horn is OK for inlays. It's not
MOP , but can be buffed up to a nice shine. I don't know if you'd want
to use it as the sole inlay material, but it can add some colors to
your palette, so to speak.
I have scraps left over from other projects that are big enough to make
trompette pegs out of, and I supposed it would work well for string
rests if cut at the proper angle. I'm currently making a couple of
chiens out of horn and bone (2 each) in my proverbial "free time".
Maybe I'll have them ready by September....<g>.
Roy Trotter
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:06:19 -0500
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: [HG] Decorative stamps/punches...
While we're on the subject of "where do you find..."
Many old hurdy-gurdies, and many new ones, too, are adorned with little
decorative stamped shapes, usually around the perimeter of the keybox
sides, and also on the sides and tops of the tuning headstock.
You folks out there who have made instruments (hurdy-gurdy or otherwise)
with these decorations: what kind of tool is used, and where did you get
it/them?
I've seen leather stamping tools on the web which would be nice, but I
don't know how big they are and whether they would work for relatively hard
woods used in keyboxes.
Juan, it's been awhile since I've seen the hurdy-gurdy you're making, but
didn't you have that decoration on yours?
~ Matt
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew Szostak - Hurdy-Gurdies
7 Grove Street
Camden, Maine 04843
phone: 207-236-9576
email: gurdy _at_ midcoast.com
website: http://www.midcoast.com/~beechhil/vielle
--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 21:30:08 -0800
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Decorative stamps/punches...
Hi Matt.
The punches I use are a combination on home made bits and pieces,
"objets trouves" and Dremel bits set in a wooden handle, but I do
have some bought punches. I purchased these at an art shop in London
back in the 1970's I cannot think of the name of that particular
shop, I think it was on Kensington High Street in Knightsbridge, they
were sold for embossing gesso on gilded panels (as in icons and
altarpieces etc.) . I think your best bet is finding a gilder's
tools supplier. Failing that, you can borrow mine.
Juan
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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 12:35:32 -0000
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Decorative stamps/punches...
Do you know if they have a web site? I tries truncating the e-mail address
but got a message saying that it was forbidden.
Thanks,
Colin W Hill
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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 09:38:29 -0700
From: bbc0 <bbc0 _at_ telusplanet.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Decorative stamps/punches...
Mathew, I have a supplier for carver's wood punches. They have 18 different
designs which make an impression 15/64" across. They sell for $69.00 Cdn.
Which is basically nothing in $US. I'm not sure if I should include the
company name in here so email me for more details.
Barry
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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 09:41:20 -0800
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Decorative stamps/punches...
According to the webpage at
http://www.woodturners.co.uk/trade_links.htm
John Boddy's doesn't have a website.
--JulieR
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From: "Bruce Nally" <bnally3282 _at_ rogers.com>
To: <hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Decorative stamps/punches...
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 08:32:46 -0500
Hi Matt
There is a new set of Carver's Punches, a set of 18 shapes or you can
order single punches, they also have Carver's texturing Punches in a set
of 4. at LEE VALLEY TOOLS. Go to www..leevalley.com and see if you like
what you see, the prices are in Canadian dollars so for you it would be
about half the cost listed. the Item # for the punch set is 50K52.01,
and for the texturing punches 50K53.01
Have a Merry Xmas
Bruce Nally
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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 17:08:19 -0800
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Julian Goodacre recordings and tune books
Has anyone out there listened to the tunes on the recordings of Julian
Goodacre or played any of the tunes from his tune books?
His web page is listed below.
r.t.
http://www.goodbagpipes.co.uk/recordsindex.html
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 00:11:17 -0300 (ART)
From: marcos kaiser mori <kaisermori _at_ yahoo.com.br>
Subject: Re: [HG] Decorative stamps/punches...
Sorry. I am late again, but...
I bought mine in Paris. They were made by Henry Taylor tools
http://www.henrytaylortools.co.uk/. Unfortunately they don´t have it on
the website. I had a copy of the catalog, but I left it in Hungary.
Anyway: The punches are exactly the same as those from the canadian
company(about 6 mm, and almost the same patterns) But they had more
variety. 3 or 4 kinds of stars, crosses, everything but what I was
looking for: A tulip with 3 points, or something like this.
Good luck. (And please let me know if
you find a tulip somewhere)
Marcos
Ps: Barry: Are you working on that Louvet HG?
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 13:10:07 -0500
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Decorative stamps/punches...
The question of size aside, has anyone ever used leather punches? Are they
not made to handle the hardness of wood, or otherwise not give a "good
impression" in wood?
There are so many different choices of designs and patterns, it would be a
shame if they weren't usable. I'll contact a couple of the companies I
know about and ask them...
~ Matt
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 11:35:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Decorative stamps/punches...
--- Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com> wrote:
> The question of size aside, has anyone ever used leather punches?
> Are they
> not made to handle the hardness of wood, or otherwise not give a
> "good
> impression" in wood?
You might be able to oil harden them with the same techniques you'd use
for making plane blades. I'd think you'd also want to enhance the
diameter of the shafts, or "handles". I havn't been in the
leathercarving racket for a long time, but the standard shaft was about
1/4" (6.? mm). Might be OK with a ball-peen hammer, but it would
probably scar up your rosewood mallet pretty good.
Later, Roy T.
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:49:40 -0000
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Decorative stamps/punches...
The problem with leather punches is that they are not that durable even
though made from steel. I have occasionally made a mistake and caught a
brass rivet and it can really damage the punch. They are really made for use
on damp leather which is soft and hardening them as Roy suggests is an art
in itself. They are also not very sharp generally speaking and some can tend
to just bruise the wood quite badly - especially the larger flatter ones.
Heated "punches" are better but I haven't seen them for leather for over 10
years in the UK .I have been doing leatherwork (small items/handbags/wrist
straps etc) for over 30 years and a search around craft shops should bring
up wood-burning tools (sometimes sold as "pokerwork kits") which have very
similar "punches" made of brass which are inserted into an electric
soldering iron and burn the design in. They have the advantage that, if you
don't mind a lot of filing down, they are not too difficult to make yourself
from brass rod of the right diameter (for larger ones use a larger rod and
file down the end to fit in the iron) You can also just use them in a wooden
handle and heat them up over a flame. Heated correctly, they make a nice
"brand" in the wood - too hot though and they char it - practice on scrap
wood first! Again, if a little charred it can be cleaned out and used as a
base for an inlay. I have not tried this on an instrument but it worked ok
on hardwood furniture. Not too good on softwood though.
Oh, a BP hammer will mash the ends down of leather punches - it's too heavy
for the punches which are quite soft and after time you end up with
mis-shapen end which takes ages to file off. Use a pin hammer with sharp
blows instead or a block of wood over it if you are using a mallet (another
3-hand task).
I have lots of mashed up punches etc so I talk from experience!
Have fun,
Colin Hill
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 14:30:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Decorative stamps/punches...
Oh, I forgot the <g> as in "ball-peen hammer <g>". I'm at work and keep
getting distracted..... The punchline is that I don't think leather
tools would be a good idea, but there must be a workaround. Hmmnm,
Alden, does that laser-cutter do metal?
Even Later, Roy T.
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:16:56 -0500
From: John Roberts <anglo _at_ albany.net>
Subject: [HG] Low G chanter
Hi Matt,
I'm about to try a low G chanterelle on my Eaton, and Lisa would like
to try it on the big Volksgurdy as well. There was a bit of
discussion on the list a while ago. I know you've experimented
successfully, so I thought I'd ask you what you'd recommend for a
string (and where one might get them).
Thanks a million,
Cheers,
John.
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 23:58:06 -0500
From: John Roberts <anglo _at_ albany.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Low G chanter
Oops, my apologies for sending to the list what was intended as a
personal message. (But if you all want to talk about low G chanters
again....)
John Roberts.
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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 22:35:48 -0800
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Decorative stamps/punches...
I agree with Colin, leather puncher are too soft and coarse for what you want.
I don't use the soldering iron method, but sometimes I run a candle
flame over the decorative end of the punch, this leaves a thin film
of soot which then clearly outlines the design when the punch makes
its indentation on wood. For long, regular lines, such as on the
sides of keyboxes, you can fix the punch in a drill press and move
the wood along in increments against a fixed edge.
Juan
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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:23:43 +0100
From: Wolfgang Weichselbaumer <atelier _at_ weichselbaumer.cc>
Subject: Re: [HG] Low G chanter
Hi John,
For the low G the Corelli Crystal Viola G is a good solution.
Please try the perfect tension (in my opinion the strong one or the
middle one is the best for an Eaton).
If you also want to try the low C I can recommend you from Pirastro
Obligato C (very expensive, but maybe the best).
Regards
Wolfgang
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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:29:31 -0000
From: Graham Whyte <graham _at_ altongate.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [HG] Low G chanter
The string I have for a low g chanter is
Savarez
Corelli Crystal
Viola G - 3 Medium
Ref 733M
It is very very fine silver wire-wound on Stabilon which I think is a multi
strand nylon type core
It is very stable, you can take it off, re-tension it and it is stable again
within a few minutes.
My sounding length is 340mm on the Colson
It gives a very rich cello/viola stringy sound and plays well over the full
2 octaves
For me, it sounds great played on its own with only g mouche (unison pitch)
and d trompette
Playing together with the high g gives a very full sound
It is only 0.9mm diam (thinner than the high g) which means no bridge
cutting, you might just need 1 shim
Just put Savarez+733M into Google to find suppliers
Also Alden & Cali keep them in stock (as do many luthiers I suspect)
My high g which is very sweet is a Savarez oiled gut Ref BRH 94
(double length so you easily get 2 strings)
Graham Whyte
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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:22:18 -0500
From: "Smishkewych, Wolodymyr" <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: [HG] dried fruits with HG, on eBay?
Hello folks,
I'm sorry, but I just couldn't help myself; take a peek
at the listing for the duckhead Reichmann on eBay: notice what you get
with the instrument ("the HG will be delivered with").
My apologies if the lister of the instrument is on this e-list;
I'll be happy to say that it nonetheless brought a smile to my face
this morning and my comments are meant only in good humor.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=929996172
cheers, dried apricots or whatever else you may serve with your HG this
winter,
Vlad
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wolodymyr Joseph Smishkewych
Departmental Administrative Assistant
Department of Voice
Indiana University School of Music
Merrill Hall 105
Bloomington, IN 47401
Tel: +1 (812) 855 2057
Fax: +1 (812) 855 4936
voicedep _at_ indiana.edu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 17:00:06 +0000
From: richard.lewis _at_ bookseller.co.uk
Subject: Re: [HG] dried fruits with HG, on eBay?
"take a peek at the listing for the duckhead Reichmann on eBay: notice what
you get with the instrument ("the HG will be delivered with?")
hm, a "raisin" is pretty poor as a freebie, considering I got a roast
dinner with mine . . .
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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:37:53 -0500
From: Arle Lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>, Wolodymyr Joseph Smishkewych <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] dried fruits with HG, on eBay?
And for the geriatric or very young player, we include a complimentary
prune.
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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:31:54 -0500
From: Beverly Woods <tradmusic _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] FW: Jewish hurdy-gurdy photo
Anyone have any insights on this for Paul?
Beverly Woods
-> ---------
> From: "Gifford, Paul" <pgifford _at_ umflint.edu>
> To: World music from a Jewish slant <jewish-music _at_ shamash.org>
> Subject: RE: Jewish hurdy-gurdy photo
> Date: Tue, Dec 17, 2002, 12:57 PM
>
>
> On eBay there is currently a cabinet photo of a Jewish beggar with a
> hurdy gurdy up for sale. This could be from about 1900 or so.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=929987570&indexURL=
> 0&photoDisplayType=2#ebaylargephotohosting
>
> Can anyone offer any further information about the subject in the
> photo,
> from clues in his dress, etc.?
>
> Paul Gifford
>
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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 22:09:14 -0500
From: Wolodymyr Joseph Smishkewych <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Cc: pgifford _at_ umflint.edu
Subject: Re: [HG] FW: Jewish hurdy-gurdy photo
Hello all, and Paul--
Some thoughts from a Ukrainian-Spanish Jewish HG player (me),
coincidentally--
this picture is fascinating! the HG looks like a byelorussian or
ukrainian lira, and the vest design under the carpetbaggy part of the
oputfit looks like a design from the carpathian mountain area. the
chip-carved drinking flask is very much in the style of Hutsul folk art,
from the Carpathian mountain region of Ukraine. However, i can't be 100%
sure of it all being so coincidentally from my own part of eastern
europe, so i'll venture a hypothesis that it is from the Galician
corridor along POland and Ukraine, perhaps even reaching as far south as
northern Romania or Moldavia--but certainly a likely thing to be from
somewhere within the vicinity of the AustroHungarian empire's
range...esp with the photo being taken in Berlin--a good possibility
that the HGist was an itinerant traveling musician--perhaps a rare
jewish 'lyrnik' or epic HG bard?
The equal spacing of the HG keys points to this area of europe being a
likely place of origination--you may remember this topic on the list a
few months ago.
cheers,
Vlad
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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 22:34:12 -0800
From: Henry Boucher <boite _at_ sympatico.ca>
Subject: [HG] Picture ,
and another detail , Matt once showed me a book
with picture of little boys , all holding the same HG
obvioudly since the same pegs were missing on all the
pictures . The way the man cover the HG head with his
hand makes me think that pegs could be missing and
the instrument is just a prop .
HB
From boite _at_ sympatico.caférence again )
At first , it looks like those " Savoyard " pictures but there are
many strange details . Maybe it is a complete set up ?
Henry Boucher
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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 09:59:51 -0000
From: Graham Whyte <graham _at_ altongate.co.uk>
Subject: [HG] Reichman HG, on eBay
Have you seen the huge pile of part
finished guitar back HGs on the shelf behind ?
I can only assume this is Kurt's workshop, is he selling new HGs on eBay
?
Graham
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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 11:26:57 -0500
From: HobgoblinH _at_ aol.com
Subject: [HG] Reichman HG, on eBay
Guys, I must confess I am sorely tempted. Should I bid on this thing? It costs
almost twice what my current best-beloved (Balazs Nagy guitar-body) cost, and
on the other hand, I'll be getting a check for about that amount today. Before
looking at this instrument, I had planned to snuggle it all into my savings....
Just how ultimate is this instrument? Does anyone know? Do you think it is new?
As it happens, I am not put off by the German instruction manual, because I do German.
<<cheers, dried apricots or whatever else you may serve with your HG this winter,
Vlad>>
And Vlad, I have to ask, is dried apricots a common busking food among the
brotherhood here, because I must confess, I take them on the road all the time.
Not only because I love them, but also because performing on the road tends to
confuse my innards.
Christmas cheer,
Alice
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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:51:41 -0800
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Reichman HG, on eBay
If you're tired of your poor, old Nagy guitar-body and it needs a new home,
my house is hurdygurdy-less. Send it on my way. ;) I can assure you I'd
take care of it for you!
--JulieR
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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 12:01:36 -0500
From: HobgoblinH _at_ aol.com
Subject: RE: [HG] Reichman HG, on eBay
<<If you're tired of your poor, old Nagy guitar-body and it needs a new home,
my house is hurdygurdy-less. Send it on my way. ;) I can assure you I'd
take care of it for you!
--JulieR>>
No, Julie, not in the least tired of it. Practically sleep with it. However, you
have my deepest sympathies for being h-g-less. I certainly would recommend you get
a new one from Balazs, because if I ever sold mine, it would be at his current price,
of course.
Cheers,
Alice
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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 10:24:39 -0800
From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Reichman HG, on eBay
If you look at the picture showing it from the handle end, you will
see what appear to be three holes in the lute-backed corpus where
there shouldn't be holes. There also seems to be some scratching of
the varnish in that area. It does not look like a new instrument to
me, if it is, maybe it was a prototype.
Juan
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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 15:07:24 EST
From: Maxoubbn _at_ aol.com
Subject: [HG] (OT) stolen bagpipes
Hi !
A message for the UK players :
the three bagpipes of my french friend Arnaud GUENZI (aguenzi _at_ wanadoo.fr)
were stolen last week, during a UK tour.
- a "20 pouces" (D/G) made by Serge DURIN, with incrustations (is it the
correct word ?), and a boxwood chanter, with a C/C# key.
- a "16 pouces" (G/C) made by Bernard BLANC, in the "Sautivet" style,
with a boxwood chanter.
- a set of Uilleann Pipes : a simple ebony chanter made by Kwisthout in
Dublin.
if someone can help...
Maxou
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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 20:16:43 -0000
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Reichman HG, on eBay
Maybe the holes are where you keep the raisins:)
Colin Hill
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Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 14:07:02 -0800
From: JulieR <julesong _at_ attbi.com>
Subject: RE: [HG] Reichman HG, on eBay
HobgoblinH _at_ aol.com said:
> No, Julie, not in the least tired of it. Practically sleep with
> it. However, you have my deepest sympathies for being h-g-less. I
> certainly would recommend you get a new one from Balazs, because
> if I ever sold mine, it would be at his current price, of course.
> Cheers,
> Alice
Ah well. You can't blame a gal for trying. ;)
--JulieR
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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 10:52:46 -0500
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Low G chanter
Hi John-
I did get your message off list as well, but why not respond to everyone?
I have used Thomstik's Dominant viola G, medium (mittel) with success. It
was the string Nigel Eaton recommended to me when I made my first
hurdy-gurdy. But that was quite a few years ago, and I haven't seen anyone
else using it. I would not hesitate to try something new, but I bought a
bunch of them awhile back, and so I'm still using them up!
It is similarly priced to, and has the same basic structure (according to
one catalog I have, anyway) as the Corelli Crystal - silver winding over a
perlon core.
I have had two minor problems, I should call them "inconveniences," with
the Dominant:
One: I have found the silver windings to be quite fragile and not very
tolerant of the twisting motion often used in wrapping cotton. I've
developed a slightly different technique for changing cotton on this string
so as not to break the winding where the string contacts the bridge.
Two: I've had the rare but occasional problem with the string breaking at
the tuning peg. The silver winding terminates beneath a silk-like fabric
winding at each end, where the string length continues. These "silk-wound"
ends are more flexible than the silver-wound middle, so they can make the
sharp turns required in the tailpiece and tuning peg without breakage.
Because the length from tailpiece to tuning peg on my hurdy-gurdy is
shorter than that of a standard viola, a bit of the stiffer silver-wound
string (that which overlaps the silk winding) makes it to the bend at the
peg. This is where the string usually breaks, especially with lots of
tuning changes, which I sometimes do, tuning the g melody string down to f.
The above mentioned catalog lists Dominant strings for viola in "Standard,
Jr. (abbreviation for "Junior?") and Extra Long." Perhaps this implies
that there is a shorter length which would be better for my hurdy-gurdy.
Does anyone have any opinion about using the "plastic" (nylon, perlon,
Stabilon, whatever) core strings versus GUT core strings? I read somewhere
(I can't remember) a recommendation for Pirastro (a bit more expensive
brand, as Wolfgang points out) "Eudoxa," which is a silver wound gut core
viola string.
~ Matt
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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 09:34:33 -0500
From: Matthew Szostak <gurdy _at_ midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] Decorative stamps/punches...
Here's my take on the subject regarding leather stamps - I've recently seen
some (apparently the word "punch" refers to a tool used to make a hole in
leather, according to the folks at Tandy Leather Company, anyway). Though
they weren't designs I would ever put on a hurdy-gurdy, I can say that they
didn't look like they would work at all, durability issues aside. Except
for the smallest shapes (1/16 inch and smaller), all of the impressing
surfaces of the tools I saw weren't flat; they were crowned as much as 3/32
inch. In other words, in order to have the edge of the tool create its
impression, the middle of the tool would have to compress the wood as much
as 3/32 inch, which isn't the kind of subtlety we're looking for.
~ Matt
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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:03:03 -0000
From: Colin Hill <c.hl _at_ virgin.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] Decorative stamps/punches...
Yes, many punches are "flat-faced" as you say, but some are suitable as they
have hollowed-out portions. The same can be said for metal punches (for
decorating metal objects).You are quite correct that you would have to be
very careful in choosing. Mass-produced punches are really for the hobbyist
and their quality may leave a lot to be desired. That still leaves the
wood-burning tools which should be quite suitable if used with great care. I
don't know if they are available in the states or at least outside the UK
(or even within the UK now - mine are at least 20 years old). Failing that,
I daresay a carefully used soldering iron may do to decorate but I must
agree that nothing other than really sharp tools do the job best. Punches
and burning are not really precise enough for the beauty of a HG! They
ALWAYS look a little amateurish even when done really well.
Colin Hill
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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 17:36:35 EST
From: HobgoblinH _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] Jewish hurdy-gurdy photo
Hey, guys, I bought the photo! I'm all excited. I think it might give me a
whole new departure in costume for performance in future, as I have the book
which shows every conceivable ethno-costume in Asia and Russia. I'll get to
go over is with a magnifying glass. What fun!
Alice
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Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 08:35:28 -0000
From: Ruth Bramley <ruthbramley _at_ btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] FW: Jewish hurdy-gurdy photo
And some more thoughts from an English (Russian/Polish/Austro-Hungarian)
Jewish HG player (me!)....
I really like this picture - even if it was probably a "set-up" photo. I
wonder where he came from? Looking at the carpet thing, I don't think it's a
bag, but more likely just a small rug, perhaps to sit on, (or maybe to
spread his CDs.....). He also has a recorder, a small drum/tabor and what
looks like a brandy bottle (or similar beverage) around his neck. Perhaps he
was a one-man-band?
Anyway, thanks for sharing this delightful picture.
Merry Christmas/Chanukah/Diwali/etc and a Happy New Year to all
Ruthie
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Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 09:25:56 EST
From: HobgoblinH _at_ aol.com
Subject: Re: [HG] FW: Jewish hurdy-gurdy photo
I will share any details I scavenge from a closer examination of the picture
when it gets here, which'll probably be 14 days from now. Golly, Ruthie what
a complex ethnic background you have there. I like to think I had an ethnos
in some former life somewhere.
Happy Holidays,
Alice
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:05:20 -0500
From: Wolodymyr Joseph Smishkewych <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Jewish hurdy-gurdy photo
Hi Alice--
i have a 'business proposition' for you--how much would you ask for a
good quality scan for personal & academic research use? i can explain
later, but it has a lot to do with east eur. HG and my own background
(spanish-ukrainian-jewish-HG player). thanks!
ps: i can throw in a box of organic turkish apricots too! ;^)
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 10:16:50 -0500
From: Wolodymyr Joseph Smishkewych <wjsmishk _at_ indiana.edu>
Subject: Re: [HG] Jewish hurdy-gurdy photo
oops-sorry list! i meant that as a personal question for Alice. My
apologies!
Vlad
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Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 09:17:15 +0100
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] Low G chanter
Matthew Szostak wrote:
> I have used Thomstik's Dominant viola G, medium (mittel) with success.
> (...)
> It is similarly priced to, and has the same basic structure (according to
> one catalog I have, anyway) as the Corelli Crystal - silver winding over a
> perlon core.
I acctually use the Corelli Crystal, tried the Dominant and used the
Thomastik 'Spirocore' a lot.
Its just a matter of personal sound choisse which one you use. And each
string will give a different satisfying or unsatisfying result mounted
on different instruments.
> (...)
> The above mentioned catalog lists Dominant strings for viola in "Standard,
> Jr. (abbreviation for "Junior?") and Extra Long." Perhaps this implies
> that there is a shorter length which would be better for my hurdy-gurdy.
there are at least three different lenghts of viola string in the
Thomastik catalogue:
325 mm (violin lenght)
370 mm (standard viola)
420 mm (long viola)
> Does anyone have any opinion about using the "plastic" (nylon, perlon,
> Stabilon, whatever) core strings versus GUT core strings? I read somewhere
> (I can't remember) a recommendation for Pirastro (a bit more expensive
> brand, as Wolfgang points out) "Eudoxa," which is a silver wound gut core
> viola string.
Im personally prefer artificial cores which do not react on humidity and
keep their tuning very well and also are well tuneable in the upper
range above the duodecim. Especially the Spirocore do not lose much
power in this highest pitches.
My experience with plain strings is that 'nylon' (usual guitar strings)
does not work well, carbon does nylgut does vry well.
regards,
Simon Wascher - Vienna, Austria
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Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 17:34:17 -0600
From: Doug Frantz <douglask _at_ prismnet.com>
Subject: [HG] HG String Source
Hi Theo,
To refresh your memory, I came out to your place at the begininng of the
year with my Gotschy Phoenix.. I appreciate the direction you gave me and
consider myself fortunate to be pointed the right way so early on.
I've made some progress, the coup 4 is natural now, the coup 6 isn't.... I
can't do it yet.
I remember you saying that you replace your strings every several months.
My melody strings are starting to seperate and need to be replaced.
Can you recommend a source?
I'm also considering buying another Gurdy. Probably a Gotschy equivelent of
your Alto. I remember reading that you went to Hawaii to teach Don Lax. What
did you think of Don's new Gotschy luteback?
Thanks and Happy Holidays,
Doug
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 19:01:52 -0600
From: Doug Frantz <douglask _at_ prismnet.com>
Subject: [HG] HG String Source
Oops Helmut, that email was supposed to go to Thoe Bick not you.
Sorry,
Doug Frantz
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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 12:49:04 +0100
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: Re: [HG] HG String Source
Hello Doug,
sorry to disturb you, but you sent both e-mails to the HG mailing
list....
S.
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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 15:58:10 -0600
From: Doug Frantz <douglask _at_ prismnet.com>
Subject: Re: [HG] HG String Source
Sorry guys, I replied to an old message from Theo--I thought it was from his
email address, not the HG list.
Doug
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Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:32:33 -0800
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] Another HG list in French
This was posted on http://www.ifrance.com/_forum/?ForumName=forumvielle
If I realy understood French I could tell if this is an anouncement about
a new forum or if it is a replacement for the old one. But since Henry
Boucher is listed as a member, maybe Henry can explain what this is all
about.
r.t.
______________________________________________________________
Sujet : >>>> CHANGEMENT d'ADRESSE DE CE FORUM <<<<<<
Date: 23/12/02, 18H51
Bonjour à tous,
Pour Noël vous avez un nouveau forum des vielleux à l'adresse :
http://fvielle.free.fr
Quant à celui-ci il devrait disparaître d'ici un mois environ.
A bientôt sur le nouveau forum et bonnes fêtes de fin d'année à tous,
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 14:54:22 -0800
From: R. T. Taylor <shangrilart _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: [HG] TO SELL hurdy-gurdy with wheel in ground
Here is your chance to buy a Hurdy Gurdy with a wheel in the ground!
Nothing is better than trying to use a translation service like Babelfish
to create some funny variations in different languages. Anyway here is
info about a HG for sale listed on the web site
http://www.cmtra.org/annonces.html
TO SELL hurdy-gurdy with wheel in ground, round, beautiful aesthetic,
1380 euros + Boudet hurdy-gurdy in ground, Jenzat copy, 1830 euros,
visible with St Maurice in Gourgois (the Southern Loire). Rens. 04 77 50
36 06
OK, here is the original.
A VENDRE vielle à roue en sol, ronde, belle esthétique, 1380 euros +
vielle Boudet en sol, copie Jenzat, 1830 euros, visibles à St Maurice en
Gourgois (Sud Loire). Rens. 04 77 50 36 06
___________________________________________________________
By the way, once you use http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish to
translate an entire web page, it will continue to translate pages as you
navigate a web page or follow links.
That makes it a bit easier for us Rumanian - Hungarians or even English
speakers, to view web sites like the HG forum at
http://fvielle.free.fr/index.php which is where I found out about this
HG for sale.
R.T.
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Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:57:41 +0100
From: "[Windows-1252] Xavier AIME - Site \"Vielle à Roue\""
<hg.vielle _at_ wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: [HG] Another HG list in French
Hi all,
The forum at http://www.ifrance.com/_forum/?ForumName=forumvielle is the
forum of the web site "Vielle à Roue"
(http://perso.wanadoo.fr/xaime/vielle.html).
This forum will be closed in three weeks, and it is replace by this new
forum http://fvielle.free.fr
Everybody are welcome, French speakers as English speakers (you can
configure it in english with inscription).
I wish an happy new year 2003,
Xavier AIME
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Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002
From: Matthew Williams <mattwill75 _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: [HG] Period drama
UK-based subscribers may have spotted a hg lurking in a scene
from the 1999 BBC/Miramax film of Jane Austen's 'Mansfield
Park' shown on British mainstream TV on 29 December. Maybe
someone's mentioned this clip before, but I just had a chance
to examine it again because my daughter had taped the film.
About 40 minutes from the end of the film, the herione Fanny
Price is sent a barrow-based firework display by the dubious
Henry Crawford as a gift, accompanied (in a 3 second shot) by
a swaying, slowly-cranking gurdy player with dubbed film
score music.
Just as well we can't hear him playing, because it appears
his technique involves his left hand supporting the
instrument from underneath. At least this inaccuracy remains
compatible with most other aspects of the film - it's not one
for the purist!
Matthew
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Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 09:05:57 -0500
From: Arle Lommel <arle _at_ lisa.org>
Subject: Re: [HG] Period drama
This film was described by one critic as the "MTV version of Jane
Austen", if that tells you anything. And yes, the HG is treated
like some funny sort of guitar. The film plays fast and loose with the
story of Mansfield Park, and turns it into something other than what it
was. I pity whoever sees only that and forms an opinion of the novel
based on it.
-Arle
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Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 22:56:55 -0800
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: Re: [HG] TO SELL hurdy-gurdy with wheel in ground
RT said:
>Here is your chance to buy a Hurdy Gurdy with a wheel in the ground!
>
We had some of those at the auction at the OTW festival... ;-)
Alden
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