Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List - October 1999Our deepest thanks to Maxou Heintzen for this fabulous photograph, taken at Saint-Cloud near Paris in 1957 by an unknown photographer. The following are the archives of the Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List, sponsored by Alden and Cali Hackmann of Olympic Musical Instruments.
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--------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 04:15:22 -0400 From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net> Subject: HG: Unauthorized reproductions. John said: >Uh, I really hate to have to be a wet blanket, but shouldn't we address the >issue of piracy of copyrighted material? In the United States making >unauthorized copies of CDs and books is illegal. If you like the music, >wouldn't it be better to buy from the musician, rather than trade for copies? I must have had my brain switched off or something - thinking about the technical aspects of list administration and forgetting the moral/legal ones. Apologies. Alden ------------------------------------------------ If you can see it and touch it, it's physical. If you can see it but not touch it, it's virtual. If you can't see or touch it, it's gone. The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese Cali and Alden Hackmann - Olympic Musical Instruments hurdy _at_ silverlink.net http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 04:15:23 -0400 From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net> Subject: HG: more administrivia The accidental posting of digests continues. I've fixed it again (I hope) and contacted the service provider. Cali and Alden Hackmann - Olympic Musical Instruments hurdy _at_ silverlink.net http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 10:55:12 -0400 From: Judy V Olmstead <shanti _at_ thurston.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: more administrivia I LIKE the digests and hope they don't disappear. There are a lot of messages otherwise! I'd rather wait a few days and see a digest than open and open and open when my life is so busy with other concerns....Judy --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 14:57:40 -0400 From: "dave _at_ dpraties.freeserve.co.uk" <dave _at_ dpraties.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: HG: Hello and more stringiness Hello, as a new subscriber to the list, may I briefly introduce myself. My name is Dave Praties, I am a professional theatre musician, and more interestingly, an instrument maker with a special interest in hurdy gurdies. The recent string debate has taken my interest, as I am involved in string making at Northern Rennaisance Instruments in Manchester, England. We research and produce specialist strings for a wide variety of instruments including the hurdy gurdy. Peter Hughes recently reported that his N.R.I. produced low G string was not satisfactory, and I wonder if you could give me some more details Peter, as if there is a problem, we would like to put it right! The question vexing me at the moment is the choice of, and siting of internal pick-ups on hurdies. I'm currently doing some test bed experiments with various piezo elements, but I'm not particularly happy with the results. Any ideas anyone? This list is a fine idea, thanks to all who run it. Cheers, Dave Praties. --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 15:23:41 -0400 From: Catherine Keenan <cath _at_ pathcom.com> Subject: HG: piezo locations my Siorats have 4 piezo pickups at the following locations: 1. directly under the sympathetics -- visible from surface of instrument 2. under the bass bridge, inside the body 3. attached to the chanterelle bridge (best insulated; less spill) 4. directly under the trompette and braced with a piece of brass or something inside cath --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 03:14:22 -0400 From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net> Subject: HG: Re: HG: piezo locations Catherine wrote: >my Siorats have 4 piezo pickups at the following locations: > >1. directly under the sympathetics -- visible from surface of instrument >2. under the bass bridge, inside the body >3. attached to the chanterelle bridge (best insulated; less spill) >4. directly under the trompette and braced with a piece of brass or >something inside The trompette pickup on the Siorat is, as far as I can see, a little canister pickup of some sort mounted in the soundboard so that the foot of the dog taps directly on the pickup. This can sound really good in the amplified instrument. My observation is that the acoustic dog sound on Siorats with this pickup is quite muted, perhaps because the poor little dog is tapping away on a big piece of metal rather than directly on the soundboard. YMMV. Alden --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 05:02:35 -0400 From: "peter.j.hughes _at_ bt.com" <peter.j.hughes _at_ bt.com> Subject: HG: RE: Hello and more stringiness > Hello, as a new subscriber to the list, may I briefly introduce > myself. My name is Dave Praties, I am a professional theatre > musician, and more interestingly, an instrument maker with a > special interest in hurdy gurdies. The recent string debate has > taken my interest, as I am involved in string making at Northern > Rennaisance Instruments in Manchester, England. We research > and produce specialist strings for a wide variety of instruments > including the hurdy gurdy. Peter Hughes recently reported that his > N.R.I. produced low G string was not satisfactory, and I wonder if > you could give me some more details Peter, as if there is a > problem, we would like to put it right! Hello david, Nothing actually 'wrong' with the string, it fact it's fine - as are all the strings i've bought from you over the last couple of years. The problem lies with the mechanism used on my HG to give the F and F# _below_ the open chanter G. There's acertain amount of mechanical ballance involved with with keeping everything in tune when using these notes. I've tweaked it so that it works very well with the Corelli Crystals but unfortunately it doesn't work too well with the gut - due to the different stiffness I assume. It probably just needs a free evening or two to sort it out, so I'll tell you more when I get one! Cheers, Peter Hughes. --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 14:01:45 -0400 From: Catherine Keenan <cath _at_ pathcom.com> Subject: HG: woof woof (Siorat chiens) At 03:14 AM 10/6/99 -0400, Alden wrote: ...My observation is that the acoustic dog sound on >Siorats with this pickup is quite muted, perhaps because the poor little >dog is tapping away on a big piece of metal rather than directly on the >soundboard. just to point out that the poor little feller is 7 years old with never a day off, which is probably affecting its sound -- nor did its owner didn't go to the chien making workshop at the festival! cath --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 14:08:09 -0400 From: "Meador, John" <john.meador _at_ unistudios.com> Subject: HG: Bow Wow Does anyone think that this list is going to the dogs ? --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 19:56:20 -0400 From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu> Subject: HG: woof woof (Siorat chiens) Catherine said: > > just to point out that the poor little feller is 7 years old with never a > day off, which is probably affecting its sound -- nor did its owner didn't > go to the chien making workshop at the festival! He's worked hard - he should at least have a day off or two. Doesn't he get lonely? <g> But seriously - when he was younger, was his bark louder? Alden --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 00:08:48 -0400 From: Catherine Keenan <cath _at_ pathcom.com> Subject: HG: woof (Siorat chiens) At 07:56 PM 10/6/99 -0400, Aldenwrote: >But seriously - when he was younger, was his bark louder? > >Alden seriously, when i was younger, I remembered better... noirette has always been a fairly quiet instrument (strings and trompette both) -- and the brown one as well, more comfortable with baroque than that headbanging folk music style. "chamber" instruments? but she definitely needs a new crisper woofer on her. cath --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 08:16:26 -0400 From: "JPeekstok _at_ aol.com" <JPeekstok _at_ aol.com> Subject: HG: Re: woof In a message dated 10/6/99 9:21:14 PM, cath _at_ pathcom.com writes: Alden wrote: > >But seriously - when he was younger, was his bark louder? I *like* the quieter dog. Maybe this is HG heresy, but I find most dogs to be loud and intrusive in comparison to the melody. I generally prefer the sound of the HG with no dog being played at all, or with it being used rarely as an accent. Most of the dog playing I hear reminds me of having an insensitive drummer playing along louder than the other instruments. John Peekstok --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 11:35:25 -0400 From: Catherine Keenan <cath _at_ pathcom.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: woof At 08:16 AM 10/7/99 -0400, John wrote: >In a message dated 10/6/99 9:21:14 PM, cath _at_ pathcom.com writes: >I *like* the quieter dog. Maybe this is HG heresy... not at all! most of the instruments around these days are based on the folklore instruments, designed for village squares, and to compete with (gasp) bagpipes and the rocket launcher chien is often the only way that 200th dancer will be able to know where the downbeat is at the far end of the set (time delay as pipe sound wafts over the airwaves, other noise, etc. we wouldn't expect an instrument like marcello bono's, for instance, to produce a sound like that -- ditto for denis'. it's a taste or style thing. I think I've said before, I love the Siorat for baroque music (if the purists don't mind something that looks like a cruise missile!) cath --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 17:13:04 -0400 From: J J Andrus <jjand _at_ juno.com> Subject: HG: Re: woof John, I hope sometime you can take a class from Marcello. I think you'd really enjoy it. He teaches that the dog is used to accent or enhance parts of the music, but is better when not used all the time. Of course, he's talking about Baroque music, but it's a fairly simple concept to use the dog when it makes the music sound better to you, and not when it doesn't. Just when I was starting to really get the hang of the folk dogging, it was a new challenge to follow Marcello's directions for starting and stopping the dog by phrases in the music. It's harder than it sounds because by also changing wheel speed for dynamics - the crank doesn't always end up at TDC for the next phrase without planning way ahead. A lot of dogs out there are quite obnoxious and I don't care as much for those, but I do wish my dog had a little snappier bark than it does. One of these days I'll get around to making another one or two so I can retire my Ugly Dog. Joanne --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 20:24:49 -0400 From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: woof Would the preference for a quieter or louder dog in certain situations explain that "double dog" system? Theo Bick has that on his "Princess Leia" (sorry, I don't remember the maker). He did say that the upper dog was not very loud. I've been trying "mental experiments" work the contrast and haven't come up with anything. Perhaps the idea is to only tension up the one you need? == --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:04:33 -0400 From: Catherine Keenan <cath _at_ pathcom.com> Subject: HG: woof woof Hey Roy missin' your special smile! >[Theo] did say that the upper dog was not very loud. I've >been trying "mental experiments" work the contrast I suspect the difference is partly the size of the chien (can't say dog, sorry) (--Soirats, of which Theo has one with two trompettes, have smaller ones) and partly the balance between string dimension (or thickness) and the angle between wheel and chien does this make sense? i've just had two beers... xo cath --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 07 Oct 1999 22:20:23 -0400 From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: Re: woof Roy Trotter wrote: > Would the preference for a quieter or louder dog in > certain situations explain that "double dog" system? > Theo Bick has that on his "Princess Leia" (sorry, I > don't remember the maker). > > He did say that the upper dog was not very loud. I've > been trying "mental experiments" work the contrast and > haven't come up with anything. Perhaps the idea is to > only tension up the one you need? OK, I am going to put in my 2 cents ( Centimes ? ) . 1 Hurdy Gurdy's with multiple dogs usually have them so that you can tune them to different notes in order to play in different keys. Since they are tuned differently, have different strings and are physically mounted differently, they will usually sound different. 2 Loud or Soft sounding dogs. Well that is a personal preference and sometimes changes. The one thing that I can say about Hurdy Gurdy players is that we all have our own opinions about just about everything. I guess that in general, most players are looking for a particular balance of sound that "they " like. A balance of drone, melody and percussion from the dog. Many of us have a collection of working dogs that can be switched to suite your taste or circumstances. Since I love the percussion effect and the way that you can customize the sound, I find that the most important characteristic is to have a responsive dog. It should not be difficult to play slow or fast, different tempos, staccato or legato effects or continuous buzzing. I personally find that there are certain conditions that can really use a loud, strong and distinct buzz. Playing in large groups. Playing for beginner dancers, Playing outside, Playing with other loud instruments like the bag pipe. Playing with a group of people that have difficulty staying on rhythm. And of course anyone that has had the opportunity to hear Marchello Bono play, has heard a combination of player and instrument that makes a soft, delicate dog come alive. And one last thing. Depending on the acoustics and especially if your instrument is amplified, what you hear as a player and what the people around you hear is many times a different sound. r.t. taylor --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 19:40:44 -0400 From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: woof woof Cath, as much as I admire your talent for metaphor, I can't say that this last post does make much sense, but it's OK, have another beer, you earned it (and a virtual hug). I could say "chien" when I was hearing it a lot, but I forgot how... RT, Thanks for the chip-in. (Makes sense.) It was a major breakthru to realize that you might not run multiple dogs simultaneously. All sorts of possibilities are opening up. == --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1999 15:06:12 -0400 From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ teleweb.at> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: Re: woof Hello, Since some years I use hurdy gurdys with three, or on my actual instrument four chien: I normaly use one or two of them at one time, the meaning of having four of them is on one hand different tunings on the other hand different sounds: the pitches are: c (viola c), f, c1 and f1. There is a system of kapo's to change the pitch up one or two notes. The c1/d1/e1 is my standard dance music chien, the f1/g1/a1 is used allone to play tunes which change key between G and C or I combine it for extra punch with another chien, a typical example: d1+a1 . The lower ones I do not use as chien much, they are also useful as simple drones. Their chiens sound more like frogs: In some cases this is a great sound, for example you hear this typical sound in some takes on the album "kaksi" by hedningarna. Using chiens with different sounds together can creat a strong rythmical pattern if they react on different attack. Using two chiens at once can help to get more articulated accents, but if the system of the chien is well adjusted, it is possible to get a astonishing dynamic range from one chien: very qiet nearly soft sounds or loud "barks" from the sheepdog to keep together the herd of dancers. The sound of the chien is, If the whole sytem is OK, created mainly by the accents given with the right hand, and only secondarily a question of the piece of wood itself. Since the pitch of the chien string, the trompette, is just within the range of the keyboard, it makes sense to work on a setting in wich the string sound is not to loud because it interfears with the melody. So the string tension should be not to strong, less strong then the melodystrings in any case. The target is to get a clear easy controlable sound from the chien with a maximum loudness peak and and a not to loud sounding string. My solution today is: for the c1/d1/e1 a .85 mm Badminton string and a quite thin ebony chien. Simon Wascher --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 03:12:06 -0400 From: <ghironda _at_ hotmail.com> Subject: HG: Hi folks Hi This is Marcello Bono from Bologna Italy; I love playing and making (sometimes...) baroque HGs. I hope to meet lot of old and new friends here; unfortunately my usual email DOESN'T work in America (don't ask me why) so I have to use Hotmail, that is slow and unconfortable. It means: I'll be the slowest one here! see you Marcello --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 08:37:18 -0400 From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com> Subject: HG: RE: Hi folks And, Marcello, thank you for a wonderful concert in Seattle! I was fortunate to be there on a business trip and be able to attend: the Vivaldi, especially, was breathtaking. Judith --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 00:06:06 -0400 From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Hi folks CIAO MARCELLO I'm still basking in the afterglow of the 'candlelight concert' and the exquisite craftsmanship of "Sleeping Beauty". Good to hear from you. == --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:54:55 -0400 From: Catherine Keenan <cath _at_ pathcom.com> Subject: HG: music/ party! Wed Oct 27 Hi there, -- feel free to forward this message to anyone you might think -- Please come along to the Grapefruit Moon cafe next wednesday night (after 8) and help me start a (lucky) 13th year of playing hurdy gurdy ... plus we'll be playing some brand new music, that's me and Brandon (Scott Besharah) -- and we're going to have a few tunes as well, so feel free to bring instruments -- bring your friends too! -- we'll also be collecting donations for Daily Bread Food Bank WHERE: Grapefruit Moon, 968 Bathurst Street at Follis (2 lights north of bloor) 534-9056 or you can call me, 534-2203, for more info hope to see you there! --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 20:59:59 -0400 From: Theodore Bick <theobick _at_ earthlink.net> Subject: HG: Where to buy CD Hello everyone, Does anybody know where to get the album "Les chiens jaunes"? Or for that matter, other French, German and British CD's? I used to use Cinq Planetes but they don't respond any more. Thanks alot, Theo |
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