Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List - November 1999

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Our deepest thanks to Maxou Heintzen for this fabulous photograph, taken at Saint-Cloud near Paris in 1957 by an unknown photographer.

The following are the archives of the Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List, sponsored by Alden and Cali Hackmann of Olympic Musical Instruments.

 

 
 




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Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 03:08:22 -0500
From: Catherine Keenan <cath _at_ pathcom.com>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Music from Auvergne

cafe charbon is a fabulous cd that i bought from the dusty strings table at
otw hg festival. try them first... they're close!

cath



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Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 14:17:48 -0500
From: Xurxo Romani de Gabriel <jromanid _at_ medynet.com>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG:Midi hurdygurdy

> I think that Robert Mandel in Hungary has experimented with Midi. He made 
>what he describes at the "Electorory" He does a lot of effects with processed sound.
>
> mandel _at_ mail.datanet.hu
>

I´ll mail him and see what he knows about (surely a lot). I´ve got some of the records 
of the Mandel Quartet. They are very good. He is a real crack. I think he makes his HGs
 himself!!! I know the other famous Hungarian luthier, Bela Szerenyi, and he speaks pests 
about Mandel!!!


> I think that Jean Luc Bleaton made a Midi adapter for a Hurdy Gurdy that was used by 
> Pierre Imbert.

I tried it in St Chartier years ago. You are right. It had to be adjusted every 5 minutes, and
 it was a headache!!

>
>
> An alternate idea for the chien is to use a " Shaft Encoder or Tachometer" on the axle. You 
>can then use that data to convert to the acceleration and velocity information for the Midi 
>controller. It could then mimic the  right hand technique.  The other advantage of this is 
>that it creates a way to record and analyze the performance of anyone playing that Hurdy Gurdy.
>

That´s very interesting. I´ll transmit this to my friend.

>
> By the way, don't waste your time of money on the acoustic Midi converters. I tried it and 
>found that the sound of the Hurdy Gurdy is just too complex for the software to figure out
>what is going on and it just creates garbage notation. > You are right. Too many harmonics, noises, etc... > > Years ago I made an adapter so that I could use contact switches on the Hurdy Gurdy and
>electronic solenoids to play a variety of percussion instruments like bells, chimes, marimba
>etc. at the same time that I played on the Hurdy Gurdy. It was an easy way to play harmony
>in thirds with just one instrument. > Please explain this in detail. XURXO > > r.t. --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 14:38:59 -0500 From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net> Subject: HG: MIDI HG RT said: >> I think that Robert Mandel in Hungary has experimented with Midi. He >>made what he describes at the "Electorory" He does a lot of effects >>with processed sound. "Electrotary" - only available on cassette as far as I know, though it may be on CD now. You can't really see much of the instrument, except that it's very odd. For instance, all the keys are the same width. On the one hand, why bother making them narrower toward the top? On the other hand, how weird to switch to even spacing if you're used to a traditional instrument! While I'm always interested by innovations in the instrument, a MIDI hurdy-gurdy is one example (to my mind) of "are we doing this because it's possible, or because it's useful?" The MIDI HG on electrotary didn't sound like a HG, it sounded like other things. For me, the reason I play HG is because it sounds like a HG. Innovations that make it less like a HG are not what I'm looking for. Call me a traditionalist... Alden ------------------------------------------------ If you can see it and touch it, it's physical. If you can see it but not touch it, it's virtual. If you can't see or touch it, it's gone. The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese Cali and Alden Hackmann - Olympic Musical Instruments hurdy _at_ silverlink.net http://www.hurdygurdy.com/hg/hghome.html --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 15:50:04 -0500 From: J J Andrus <jjand _at_ juno.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: MIDI HG I have this recording on CD. I was disappointed not only that it didn't sound at all like a hurdy gurdy, but also that there were no liner notes. I'd like to at least know why someone would go to all this trouble to end up with an instrument that sounds like a synthesizer. Joanne --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 15:55:26 -0500 From: Xurxo Romani de Gabriel <jromanid _at_ medynet.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: MIDI HG > While I'm always interested by innovations in the instrument, a MIDI > hurdy-gurdy is one example (to my mind) of "are we doing this because it's > possible, or because it's useful?" The MIDI HG on electrotary didn't sound > like a HG, it sounded like other things. For me, the reason I play HG is > because it sounds like a HG. Innovations that make it less like a HG are > not what I'm looking for. Call me a traditionalist... I agree. Actually, a midi-HG can be practical as long as you use it to transcribe to midi (and to scores) what you play, but I use a midi-piano-keyboard, and I guess everyone does the same. It´s not so bad for a HG-player. The other question is to transduce to midi from a standard HG. But we have alerady commented on how difficult it is to configure the program and make the adjustment continously. XURXO --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 20:48:48 -0500 From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu> Subject: HG: Hurdy Gurdy as a synthesizer? J J Andrus wrote: > I have this recording on CD. I was disappointed not only that it didn't > sound at all like a hurdy gurdy, but also that there were no liner notes. > I'd like to at least know why someone would go to all this trouble to > end up with an instrument that sounds like a synthesizer. > > Joanne I have bought a lot of Hurdy Gurdy CD's that were also disappointing for various reasons. Many times because the recording was mixed so that you could not even hear the Hurdy Gurdy. Well Robert Mandel is a musician that just happens to play Hurdy Gurdy as his main instrument, along with some other instruments. Robert plays music that is both satisfying to him and is "Commercial" . In other words it is his job and he likes to play everything from medieval music to his own modern compositions. He is one of the few people that have actually made a successful living by playing Hurdy Gurdy. Although now he is mostly playing Renaissance music as the Mandel Quartet, and producing concerts. The first time that I met him, he was in Los Angeles playing electronically processed sounds from his Hurdy Gurdy to a pre recorded tape of shall we say "Modern Music". Not exactly melodies that you could play along with. A lot of interesting sounds can be produced from vibrating strings and the Hurdy Gurdy is an excellent source because it can easily create complex sounds with varying pitch, tremolo and percussion. Now think about the sounds that are created by the Electro Acoustic Hurdy Gurdys especially the sounds and styles of Clastrier and the Vielleistic Orchestra. Not traditional sounding, but worth exploring for those people that like it. I got my start years ago in traditional Piano playing and switched to electronic sounds because that was the only way for me to satisfy my inquiring mind. I love to experiment with sounds. But I also love the pure sound of a well adjusted Hurdy gurdy, playing Traditional Music. Now where did I put that old Moog synthesizer? r.t. --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 01:01:10 -0500 From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Photo from Theo I haven't been able to see your pictures. Keep getting and error msg about "try again later". Tho't I oughta let you know. Speaking of "let you know" I'm off on Mon-Tue now. If you can fit that into your schedule, I'd like to get together and play something. I have a lot more questions now than I did before I started. == --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 01:03:07 -0500 From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: Photo from Theo Sorry about the all-call on that one folks. Punched the wrong button (again). == --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 01:57:53 -0500 From: <ghironda _at_ hotmail.com> Subject: HG: lira organizzata Hi dear friends do you know anything about "lira organizzata" or "organ hurdy-gurdy"? I'd like to know if there is someone that made one of these instruments (during the latest ten or twenty years I mean...) that REALLY works (I know lot of people saying "I made one of that"....but saying is much more easy than making...) Thanks a lot (I miss you all) Marcello ______________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 03:21:36 -0500 From: <ghironda _at_ hotmail.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Hurdy Gurdy as a synthesizer? >I have bought a lot of Hurdy Gurdy CD's that were also disappointing for >various reasons. me too.... >I ...... switched to >electronic sounds because that was the only way for me to satisfy my >inquiring mind. I love to experiment with sounds. But I also love the pure >sound of a well adjusted Hurdy gurdy, playing Traditional Music. me too... >Now where did I put that old Moog synthesizer? I've never had a Moog...but I used to play with a MS20 and slave oscillator by KORG...it was funny to process the sound of my gurdies with the synt...I used to play a melodic line and a "random" melody at the same time...(random melody thanks to erratic working of korg's external processor...) That's why I play baroque music...:o) marcello ______________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 03:37:21 -0500 From: Catherine Keenan <cath _at_ pathcom.com> Subject: HG: lira organizzata There is a guy in Vienna, or maybe he's in Switzerland now, called Yves Donnier who made a l-o for his project at the London furniture college about 15 years ago for his project. Maybe Simon knows how to find him? cath --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 04:07:13 -0500 From: <ghironda _at_ hotmail.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: lira organizzata >There is a guy in Vienna, or maybe he's in Switzerland now, called Yves >Donnier who made a l-o for his project at the London furniture college >about >15 years ago for his project. Maybe Simon knows how to find him? I know him, he went to my baroque course in Urbino in 1994 (he's a great player anyway...) but unfortunately I miss his address and phone Anyone can help me? (by the way, who's Simon? and what is "l-o"?) thanks a lot Marcello ______________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 04:12:51 -0500 From: Xurxo Romani de Gabriel <jromanid _at_ medynet.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG:Viellistic orchestra Does anyone know how to buy the CDs of the "Viellistic Orchestra" online? I have never been able to find them, and I don´t even know if they are available any more. On the other hand, I am thinking about buying a new electroacustic HG, and my doubt is Mousnier vs Siorat. Have you tried the "capo" system in Mousnier´s HGs (the one Pascal Lefevre uses)? Does it work well?Can you change the drones fast enough to play in different keys during the same song? XURXO Barcelona --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 05:57:17 -0500 From: Judith Lindenau <judith _at_ taar.com> Subject: HG: RE: Re: HG: lira organizzata Simon is Simon Wascher, with whom I just spend some time in Vienna. He is a fine player, and an excellent teacher.... Thanks to this list, I was able to connect with him while vacationing there. Judith --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 07:16:36 -0500 From: "JPeekstok _at_ aol.com" <JPeekstok _at_ aol.com> Subject: HG: Re: Hurdy Gurdy as a synthesizer? >J J Andrus wrote: > >> I'd like to at least know why someone would go to all this trouble to >> end up with an instrument that sounds like a synthesizer. For the same reason that people play synth guitars or wind controllers. If you want to play synthesizer but you are a virtuoso on an instrument other than the piano, you end up not playing as well as you know you can unless you can make your main instrument drive the synthesizer. Also, each instrument enforces its own rhythms, ornaments, phrasing, etc. If you want those stylistic elements in a synthesizer, it is best to control the synthesizer using an instrument that naturally produces those sounds. I have spent a lot of time trying to duplicate the playing styles of other instruments with a very good synthesizer and have decided it doesn't work very well. John Peekstok --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 17:18:38 -0500 From: J J Andrus <jjand _at_ juno.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Hurdy Gurdy as a synthesizer? Maybe next year at the hurdy gurdy festival we can all bring our disappointing recordings and exchange them. :-) --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 17:21:04 -0500 From: J J Andrus <jjand _at_ juno.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Hurdy Gurdy as a synthesizer? I have all the Mandel recordings I have been able to find. The music on this recording is fine, but it just doesn't have anything about it that says "hurdy gurdy" except the picture on the cover. I was expecting music that at least suggested the presence of a hurdy gurdy, not music that could have been played by any keyboardist. I have a more eclectic collection of recordings than most people and I guess I was expecting something unusual and distinctive from this one, instead of a somewhat ordinary sound. Joanne --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 18:58:15 -0500 From: "APeekstok _at_ aol.com" <APeekstok _at_ aol.com> Subject: HG: Great Idea: Recording Exchange In a message dated 11/2/99 9:45:35 PM, jjand _at_ juno.com writes: >Maybe next year at the hurdy gurdy festival we can all bring our >disappointing recordings and exchange them. :-) Joanne, what a great idea. After all, one man's disappointment is another man's treasure. Anna Peekstok --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 20:46:51 -0500 From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu> Subject: HG: Re: HG: lira organizzata ghironda _at_ hotmail.com wrote: > do you know anything about "lira organizzata" or "organ hurdy-gurdy"? > I'd like to know if there is someone that made one of these instruments > (during the latest ten or twenty years I mean...) that REALLY works Kurt Richman built one a few years ago. I believe that it was the instrument that MS. Freaumentaeu played in the early 1980's. Kurt Reichmann Glauburgstr., 67 Hinterhaus 60918 Frankfurt Germany Other people that might be able to help you are. Herman Dewit in The Netherlands Susann Palmer in the UK Michael Muskett Muskett Music The Old Mill, Duntish Dorchester, Dorset DT2 7DR, U.K. I have a set of plans, mostly they are cross sections, that I think were purchased from Jean Noel Granchamp. So he might also have some information on them. I have scean a few at the music shop in Paris on Place d'voge ( sorry for the bad spelling). They were extremely expensive and I could not get him to play it for me. Let us know if you find one. r.t. --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 11:57:43 -0500 From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: Hurdy Gurdy as a synthesizer? Joanne said (about "Electrotary"): > I have all the Mandel recordings I have been able to find. The music on > this recording is fine, but it just doesn't have anything about it that > says "hurdy gurdy" except the picture on the cover. I was expecting > music that at least suggested the presence of a hurdy gurdy, not music > that could have been played by any keyboardist. I concur. I'm cool with unusual sounds from the hurdy-gurdy. On "Electrotary" I had hoped for something that had at least some flavor of the instrument: a drone sound, a hi-hat or snare being triggered by the chien, or perhaps something of the playing style on the melody keys. What I heard (when I could hear it, which wasn't very much) was something that could be played on any keyboard controller, as Joanne said. Perhaps this was the wrong setting for the instrument - it's primarily light jazz, with no solos on the HG (at least as far as I remember.) Maybe it would be better to play it in a psychedelic/alternative rock setting, where the wierdness of the MIDI instrument could be put to it's best use. Alden --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 12:12:43 -0500 From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Music from Auvergne Hi Judy Glad to hear your elbow is geting better. Are you bowing or cranking, or both? I don't have answers to your questions, but I know that Cafe Charbon's fiddler, Jean Francois Vrod, has gone on to put out a number of fiddle music CDs ( Not stricktly Auvergne but well worth a listen). Again, you can get most of them at Dusty Strings. See ya! Juan --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 18:00:42 -0500 From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Hurdy Gurdy as a synthesizer? RT said: > Now where did I put that old Moog synthesizer? As it happens, we have a Moog that can only be described as antique. It was previously owned by the keyboardist of Steppenwolf. (Remember, that band from the 60's?) It's a pretty rudimentary beast, and shares some surprising similarities with the HG: about a 2 octave range, takes quite a while to warm up, doesn't like to stay in tune (really!) (especially the tuning of the two oscillators together), the octaves aren't always in tune, and it only plays one note at a time. I haven't figured out yet whether it's better to play it in Bourbonnais or Auvernait ;-) Alden --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 03:00:33 -0500 From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net> Subject: HG: lira organizzata Marcello said: >do you know anything about "lira organizzata" or "organ hurdy-gurdy"? >I'd like to know if there is someone that made one of these instruments >(during the latest ten or twenty years I mean...) that REALLY works (I know >lot of people saying "I made one of that"....but saying is much more easy >than making...) I have never seen a working instrument, and only one in a museum - a BIG one! You and Cali and Jacob have the same passion... I'm interested from the theoretical view of the challenge of building it, but I think it's lower down my list of fascinations than it might be ;-) Have you seen the short chapter on the organized HG in Ralyea? It's short, but does give a few sources. --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 04:03:08 -0500 From: <ghironda _at_ hotmail.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: lira organizzata >I have never seen a working instrument, and only one in a museum - a BIG >one! > >You and Cali and Jacob have the same passion... I'm interested from the >theoretical view of the challenge of building it, but I think it's lower >down my list of fascinations than it might be ;-) me too....I really don't want to make a lira...I just need one (no, no.....I need TWO!) because there is a "new" MOZART's concert to play...there is a theatre and an orchestra...I just need 2 liras and another player....that's all :o) I went to Capodimonte (Naples) in Ferdinando IV home...they used to say he had 2 liras but the only instruments there were 2 "usual" Louvet (lute shaped). ______________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 04:39:54 -0500 From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net> Subject: HG: lira organizzata RT said > >Susann Palmer in the UK Has anyone seen Ms. Palmer of late? We wrote her some letters years ago, and she responded to the earlier ones, but not the later one. >I have a set of plans, mostly they are cross sections, that I think were >purchased from Jean Noel Granchamp. So he might also have some information on >them. I'm interested in seeing these sometime. (Hint, hint) >I have scean a few at the music shop in Paris on Place d'voge ( sorry for the >bad spelling). >They were extremely expensive and I could not get him to play it for me. Did you see plans or instruments? That's M. Bissonet, just off the north-east corner of the Place de Vosges in a little street called Rue du Pas de Mule. The Place de Vosges is worth a visit - a nice place to sit in a cafe under the arches and write postcards. Don't blink as you go down the R. du P de M, or you'll miss the shop, as we did not once but twice. Closest Metro: Chemin Vert or Bastille. Is that more than anyone wanted to know? ;-) BTW, if you go there (and you should if you're in Paris), he may offer you a deal, but all the instruments we looked at were overpriced for their condition. YMMV. Alden ------------------------------------------------ --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 13:52:31 -0500 From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ teleweb.at> Subject: HG: Re: HG: lira organizzata Hi dear friends, ghironda _at_ hotmail.com schrieb: > Hi dear friends > > do you know anything about "lira organizzata" or "organ hurdy-gurdy"? > I'd like to know if there is someone that made one of these instruments > (during the latest ten or twenty years I mean...) that REALLY works (I know > lot of people saying "I made one of that"....but saying is much more easy > than making...) Well formulated question. I Know that Kurt Reichmann once made a serie, I saw one of them in the musik instruments museum in Lisberg(Germany). As far as I know they worked in priciple but it seems that there were some troubles with the needed constant pressure of the wind, so on a later instrument I saw that he had put accordeon tongues(?) in place of the organpipes - the pich of accordeon tongues(?) dose not react on changing wind pressure. My uncle who is Organ maker in Brusseles restored a historical "lira organizzata" which belongs to a Brusseles Colection but as far as I know this Instrument is not in a playable condition. My personal research on this topic "lira organizzata" came to the following conclusion: 1) I found highly professional makers, wich I do really trust, for both, hurdy gurdy and organpart, who were willing to cooperate and do the job. The organ maker under the condition to remain anonymus. 2) My Interest diminished when it was clear that a real professional "lira organizzata" would cost about 250.000 ATS that is about 18.000 Euro or $ AND it is clear, for really performing these Haydn compositions you need two of them. Simon Wascher --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 16:00:07 -0500 From: SB/JW <duodrone _at_ earthlink.net> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: lira organizzata Yves Donnier was building a lira organizzata back in the mid eighties. However, I never did see the finished product. He moved back to Geneva last I heard of him. While Yves was in London, he was sharing a flat with Cliff Stapleton, who might know Yves' whereabouts. Cliff's address is: 31 Meynell Road Hackney E9 7AP London Good Luck. Juan --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 02:34:47 -0500 From: <ghironda _at_ hotmail.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: lira organizzata >My personal research on this topic >"lira organizzata" came to the following conclusion: > >1) I found highly professional makers, wich I do really trust, for both, >hurdy >gurdy and organpart, who were willing to cooperate and do the job. The >organ >maker under the condition to remain anonymus. >2) My Interest diminished when it was clear that a real professional "lira >organizzata" would cost about 250.000 ATS that is about 18.000 Euro or $ >AND it is clear, for really performing these Haydn compositions you need >two of >them. yes....that's why I played Haydn concerts in Reggia di Caserta with hurdy-gurdy AND little portative organ, wich is even better than 2 liras, as far as I'm concerned... because I guess it's no possible to play a lira as an hurdy-gurdy if you're playing the organ section of the instrument, and I'm a HG player (maybe :o). Moreover...I don't want to be an organ player....I prefer to use my legs when I'm cycling only....:o) Thank you all for info about Ives, but it seems that I met him more recently than you, and he hadn't any lira anyway. Simon, I'll replay you personal mail soon ciao ______________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 15:48:33 -0500 From: "Dfiddler _at_ aol.com" <Dfiddler _at_ aol.com> Subject: HG: checking My name is Marjy Fiddler and I live and play hurdygurdy in Seattle Washington. I've been traveling since the Pt. Townsend workshop in September, and came home at the beginning of November to a wonderful wealth of hg notes and conversation. I am sending this note to say hello, and to make sure the server is working, since I've not gotten any hg mail for the last ten days. --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 01:00:16 -0500 From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: checking Hi Marjy! I'll give you 10-2. Things have been kinda slow lately. I haven't been able to come up with anything to stir it up. Hope you had a nice trip. -Roy == --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 17:43:36 -0500 From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu> Subject: HG: Phone numbers needed I'm looking for phone numbers or email addresses for Gilles Chabenat and Pascal Lefeuvre. Does anyone out there have them? If so, please send them to me off-list. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 19:51:04 -0500 From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Phone numbers needed Hello, I've got telephone numbers, but I'm not sure if they are correct: The adress is up to date, as far as I know, I'm not sure about the Telephone number, maybe there is no phone at this adress. Gilles Chabenat "Chassepain" F-18160 Lignieres +33 (0)2 48.21.75.13 or maybe +33 (0)1 48.21.75.13 probably both are wrong. The Adress I've got for Pascal Lefeuvre is maybe his management and some years old: Le clanet numéro 3, Pas St Georges F-33190 Casseuil +33 (0)5 56 62 77 04 If this information does not help you, I can easily ask a friend for better information during the next days. Simon --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 07:39:50 -0500 From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at> Subject: HG: Test, no need to open this mail. Hello, My apologises for this test mail. Thats just a test for Ernst Kainzmaier who wants to know if his subscription works. Evererything OK, Ernst? C U Simon Wascher --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 00:09:58 -0500 From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com> Subject: HG: More Woof Woof Hello From studying the Muskett book, one gets the impression that technique for the chien is to play along in unison with the melody, or to articulate every note. She later mentions that this is not necessarily the case but doesn't really explain much about it. Listening to my (sparse) collection of recordings, it appears that strict adherance to the note values is not very common, but I haven't been able to make any generalizations beyond that. Is the working of the dog simply a matter of personal taste, or is there some system to guide you? Also, can anyone provide metronomic values for the speed of the various dances? Thanks, -Roy __________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 02:17:14 -0500 From: <ghironda _at_ hotmail.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: More Woof Woof >Is the working of the dog simply a matter of personal >taste, or is there some system to guide you? This is just my opinion: yes of course it is, you can play EVEN more than a "coup" per note (lot of people do), but if you need you can use the dog as means of dynamic, articulation, frasing etc....(like I do when I'm playing baroque music...actually...like I'D LIKE to do....:o) Anyway, in order to play the dog according your own taste, you should be able to play the trompette in the "usual" way first (meaning: a coup per note). >Also, can anyone provide metronomic values for the >speed of the various dances? yes again, a lot of people can give you this information...unfortunately these people usually NEVER paly a hurdy-gurdy! :o). If you are just practising, you'll better forget the metronome... ....the slower, the better....then use the rest of your life trying to play faster and faster (if you like it! :o) Again....this is just my opinion.... ciao ciao Marcello ______________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 05:43:36 -0500 From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: More Woof Woof Hello, ghironda _at_ hotmail.com schrieb: > > >Is the working of the dog simply a matter of personal > >taste, or is there some system to guide you? (...) > Anyway, in order to play the dog according your own taste, you should be > able to play the trompette in the "usual" way first (meaning: a coup per > note). For me the thing one should learn first, is not to play a coup per note, wich is infact useful, but to accompany any melody with a given rythm, at least those rythms which are time-immanent. In a 3/4 time for example 1 - 3, - 2 3(the typical walz accomodation) also practice 1 2 - (found in mazurka rythms) and these: 1- -, - 2 -, - - 3. Those wich are off rhythm are very helpful to stabilize the beat: 1 - 3- 2 - (if your 3/4 equals one and a half turns, the coup is allways at pos.1, down - also practice with coup at pos.3, up) These rythms are important because they develope ones ability with the coup at pos. 1 (down) and pos. 3 (up) and these "simple" single coups give somtimes more colour than the full c.4 . (...) > If you are just practising, you'll better forget the metronome... I found the metronome very helpfull, for example especially for not getting faster in slow exercises. In exercises with the chien the metronome keeps one from changing tempo looking for the convenient way. Typicall example is practising long sounds of the chien like in the following: Four turns of the wheel with no coup followed with four c.1 with long sounds (about 2/3 of the turn). It needs a control from the outside not to execute the silent turns slower and the turns with long sounds faster, here the metronome is nearly indispensable. Also if one has troubles with the beat there are some great exercises using a metronome. The metronome can be a great help for learning a steady timing, wich is in fact very important for music but is of no use for making music. The grid the metronome gives helps to sharpen ones personal perception of time in a musical meaning. This precise perception of timing helps later on to cope with rubato and riterdando, fermatas and all those odd things about timing that are the soul of music but cannot be done with a metronome on. C U Simon Wascher --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 Nov 1999 15:45:26 -0500 From: "Maxoubbn _at_ aol.com" <Maxoubbn _at_ aol.com> Subject: HG: Re : HG: More Woof Woof Hello, I'm Maxou (from "La Chavannée") I can speak english just enough to tell jokes during concerts, so it's too difficult for me to give an answer to your interesting questions. I've given my opinion on the subject in an exercise book few years ago. An English version of this book is now available at AMTA (amta _at_ nat.fr). In a few words, "one coup per one note" is only a teaching objective, but too many people consider it as a style of playing. But now the most important part of the teachers have a more "open" view of the playing of hurdy-gurdy... The most important problem (in france) is that too many people have learned to play in this way (one coup per note), and their two hands are glued together ! Later, it's impossible for them too get a real independance of the rhytmic and melodic lines. On the other side of the ocean, if you learn listening cd's, you're free to take (if you can !) the "free" way of playing HG, because these recordings are not made to show exercises... May be it's more difficult to start playing all alone listening to a Patrick Bouffard CD, but you don't have a "strong rule" (for example one coup per note) to follow. You just have to try to do like this crazy HG man... Keep on these interesting discussions, frenchies are listening ! Maxou --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Nov 1999 02:19:24 -0500 From: <ghironda _at_ hotmail.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re : HG: More Woof Woof >Hello, I'm Maxou (from "La Chavannée") Hi, nice to meet you here >I can speak english just enough to tell jokes during concerts me too...the difference between me and you is that I tell jokes even when I try to be a serious english speaker...:o) I know your book (tanks to Stefano Pogelli, I guess you know him) and I think it's one of the best ever written since 18th century Dupuits method. Since I (should) play baroque music mostly, I know all 18th century French methods, and it sounds strange to me that you can find there lot of (maybe all of) "modern" playing techniques usually described as "innovations" by a lot of modern players and teachers. We use to say "nothing new in shining sun".... >"one coup per one note" is only a teaching objective, but too many >people consider it as a style of playing. But now the most important part >of >the teachers have a more "open" view of the playing of hurdy-gurdy... I agree, but I think you MUST be able to play that way before. I mean: one can NOT play a coup because 1) one can't 2) one don't want to (that's more difficult :o) I like to think about "trompette" in terms of "a feature" instead of "a must", but I said I'm a "baroque" italian player and I don't know how my idea can match the need of a "modern" French style player. Anyway, during the Indianola festival I tried to explain my way of playing trompette according to frasing and dynamic needs and lot of people told me "I didn't believe it was possible to use the trompette for such a lot but rithm needs!" Hope to meet you somewere, sometimes ciao Marcello Bono ______________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 01:08:04 -0500 From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com> Subject: HG: HG RE More Woof Woof Marcello, Simon, & Maxou Thanks for your replies. My background is mostly playing Irish and Scottish Dances, particulary on fiddle. I use the metronome to drive up my speed. I find the speed at which I'm comfortable playing and nudge it up a notch or two until I can play it right. I keep at it until I can play the tune cleanly at the proper tempo. Social dancers don't need that rock solid rhythm, but they like it. Solo dancers (especially in competition) really do need that precision. Once you've learned to play that way, you can always turn it off and play rubato, &c. Considering my locale and isolation, it is unlikely that I'll be playing the HG for dancers, but should the occaision arise I'd like to be ready. Thanks again. -Roy __________________________________________________ --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 13:52:36 -0500 From: J J Andrus <jjand _at_ juno.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: HG RE More Woof Woof Hey Roy, We'll all expect you to be playing hurdy gurdy in the dance band at the Festival next year... :-) Joanne --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 26 Nov 1999 18:21:54 -0500 From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu> Subject: HG: Re : HG: More Woof Woof "Maxoubbn _at_ aol.com" wrote: > Hello, I'm Maxou (from "La Chavannée") > > I can speak english just enough to tell jokes during concerts, so it's too > difficult for me to give an answer to your interesting questions. > I've given my opinion on the subject in an exercise book few years ago. An > English version of this book is now available at AMTA (amta _at_ nat.fr). Hello, I'm R.T. Taylor ( from California ) And I usually tell jokes all the time and send them via e-mail. Maxou is being very modest. As you can tell from his e-mail he speaks and writes just fine in English and I think also in French. His book and the tape that goes with it are what I would call essential reading. I have read all of the books on Hurdy Gurdy playing techniques and have copies of the Methods of the old masters as well as modern books. One of the best things about what Maxou has given us is a practical guide to playing French dance music. It is designed for people that are already familiar with the basic coup's and takes you step by step into applying your basic skills into various dynamic and more interesting ways to play the coups for the different dances. Including excellent examples of the "disassociation" style of playing. I bought my first edition in French. This summer it was produced in English and I read my book from cover to cover the first night that I had it. It is sort of like the Roseta stone. It provides written, and via the excellent tapes, an audio example of how you can interpret the rhythms for various dance types. And Maxou's famous humor is throughout the book too. I wish that I had this book years ago before my hands became glued together. It is hard work to unglue them. But it is worth the effort because you can become so much more expressive in your playing. I bought my book and tape in France but I think that you can buy them from Dusty Strings in Seattle Washington. And of course if you are a serious player you must travel the world and see and experience all that you can by going to concerts and especially attending workshops. What a great life all of us Hurdy Gurdy Players have to look forward too. Endless years of Practice Practice Practice. r.t. --------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 27 Nov 1999 00:41:30 -0500 From: Roy Trotter <rtlhf _at_ yahoo.com> Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: HG RE More Woof Woof Oh yes indeed. Really looking forward to it. I'd say something about "with bells on" but I guess that's Morris Dance, huh? ;-) __________________________________________________
 

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