Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List - December 1999
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Our deepest thanks to Maxou Heintzen for this fabulous photograph, taken at Saint-Cloud near Paris in 1957 by an unknown photographer.
The following are the archives of the Hurdy-gurdy Mailing List, sponsored by Alden and Cali Hackmann of Olympic Musical Instruments.
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Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 15:03:34 -0500
From: "Maxoubbn _at_ aol.com" <Maxoubbn _at_ aol.com>
Subject: HG: Ornanananananamentation
Hello !
Judy Olmstead asked me to give you some advices about ornamentation.
I can talk only on my subject : dance music from central France, played on a
D/G Hurdy-gurdy. Let's go !
1°) If you cannot play without ornamentation, you're wrong.
2°) If you're playing without ornamentation all the time, you're wrong.
3°) The ornamentation must be made when you want, and not only when your
fingers can.
4°) Try to put ornamentation on every note, or only on notes on the beat, or
only on the notes "off the beat", or each two notes, ...... and then make
your choice.
5°) You have to choice the most efficient ornamentation, not specially the
easiest one.
6°) If you don't like to play ornamentation on one special note, are you sure
that you're ornamentation is well played ? with a little more work, may be it
will sound better, and you will like it.
7°) "l'ornementation doit tendre vers une efficacité discrète" (F. PARIS).
If you want to learn the correct words of ornamentation (pincé, port de voix,
mordant, trille, appogiature,....) , just read some books about the playing
of baroque music.
Enough foreign language for me tonight.
waiting for your opinion (use simple words, please !)
Maxou, from France.
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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 00:14:44 -0500
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Ornanananananamentation
"Maxoubbn _at_ aol.com" wrote:
> Hello !
>
> Judy Olmstead asked me to give you some advices about ornamentation.
>
> 7°) "l'ornementation doit tendre vers une efficacité discrète" (F. PARIS).
........................................................................................................................
According to my favorite translation web site,
http://babelfish.altavista.com/
this means In English:
7°) " the ornamentation must tend towards a discrete effectiveness " (F PARIS).
But I think the correct translation is this.
When you are a beginner you can play without ornamentation for a short time. But
you will get bored, and the music will sound boring if you play without some
kind of ornamentation . And it would be really nice if you played the
ornamentation with some kind of logic, feel for the music and good technique.
Playing out of tune is not considered a good ornament. So you will just have to
keep practicing until you can play even the more difficult ornaments. And when
you can play the difficult ornaments you will find a big smile on your face.
>
>
> If you want to learn the correct words of ornamentation (pincé, port de voix,
> mordant, trille, appogiature,....) , just read some books about the playing
> of baroque music.
Now don't you think that Maxou should make another book and tape to help all of
us learn to play and use ornamentation better? And this time we want a video
too!
But if Maxou is too busy to make the book, tape and video before next July,
I suggest attending a workshop by Gills Chabnat. He usually spends some of the
class time teaching some of the basic ornamentation techniques. But it is only
the beginning of your lessons. So you will still need a lot of practice by
trying ornamentation on the tunes that you already know and on new tunes too.
r.t.
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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 02:20:43 -0500
From: <ghironda _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Ornanananananamentation
Maxou wrote:
>Judy Olmstead asked me to give you some advices about ornamentation.
>I can talk only on my subject : dance music from central France, played on
>a
>D/G Hurdy-gurdy. Let's go !
My comments (I can talk only on my subject : court 18th century music
played on a Hurdy-gurdy...with other instruments all around you...)
>1°) If you cannot play without ornamentation, you're wrong.
that's what ritornellos are for: the first time you play "something" you
should play it without any kind of ornamentation, but when you play it the
second time...
>2°) If you're playing without ornamentation all the time, you're wrong.
...you shoud play "something" more (Shonberg use to say "why are you going
to play the same music twice?!?..." I know he wasn't a baroque guy, but he
knows a lot about "music"...)
>3°) The ornamentation must be made when you want, and not only when your
>fingers can.
the ornamentation must be made when music ask for it, during the 18th
century the ornamentations were usually known as "something that people
perfectly know, so I don't need to write them"...today is not the same,
that's why we need the books.
18th century ornaments have strong musical meaning, if you don't play them
you play a really "different" music (usually a boring one...)
>4°) Try to put ornamentation on every note, or only on notes on the beat,
>or
>only on the notes "off the beat", or each two notes, ...... and then make
>your choice.
>5°) You have to choice the most efficient ornamentation, not specially the
>easiest one.
you can use two different kind of ornaments: some ornaments can really
change music, harmony, tempo etc...other ornaments are just "graces".
The difference between them is : you MUST play the first ones (just for
baroque music, of course), you CAN play the second ones
>6°) If you don't like to play ornamentation on one special note, are you
>sure
>that you're ornamentation is well played ? with a little more work, may be
>it
>will sound better, and you will like it.
you can use an ornament according to its "musical meaning" too, for exemple,
a long trill is a good way to make the harpsichord or lute sound
longer...does hurdy-gurdy need it?....
>7°) "l'ornementation doit tendre vers une efficacité discrète" (F. PARIS).
In baroque music, ornamentation is a MUST
>If you want to learn the correct words of ornamentation (pincé, port de
>voix,
>mordant, trille, appogiature,....) , just read some books about the playing
>of baroque music.
if you read the best books you can learn not only the names, but the
meanings of the ornaments
>Enough foreign language for me tonight.
the same for me...but it's 8.00 a.m. :o)
ciao ciao
Marcello Bono
______________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 13:20:52 -0500
From: Judy V Olmstead <shanti _at_ thurston.com>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: Ornanananananamentation
Judy Olmstead here re. ornamentation:
It's great to have sparked a general conversation about ornaments; it's not
what I intended. Rather, I've been told that the Auvergne style of playing
has its own set of ornaments, and I was wondering if anyone has some
concepts/tips about that. I listen to my few CDs but they sure go by fast!
Thanks, Judy
Reply-To: hglist _at_ hurdygurdy.com
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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 14:10:33 -0500
From: XTOFFF <chriscyb _at_ cybercable.fr>
Subject: HG: Ornamentations and variation...
Hello everyone! :o)
It is now 02:32 PM (my local time)!
I really hope everyone is doing great, especially the friends I know! I
have to
congratulate the owners of this ' hurdy-gurdy forum ': I find that place a
very
interesting enterprise and the links and tips posted almost every day
quite
useful for beginner, intermediate or advanced hurdy-gurdy players!
As a harpsichord and a hurdy-gurdy baroque and traditional player, I will
try
to
give more precise advices about ornamentations and variations. I think
that
some
things have to be cleared out! I will take what Maxou has written to go
further
into the details.
> 10) If you cannot play without ornamentation, you're wrong.
It depends first on what you call ornamentation; don't forget that most of
ornamentations are written in Baroque music. Variations and ornamentations
are
distinct skills and haven't to be mixed up in any way! When you play in an
'
ensemble ', you really have to follow the general " meaning " or the main
"
message " of the pieces you are performing. It doesn't really matter what
kind of
music you play; in Ancient (Medieval), Baroque, classical, contemporary
and
traditional musics, I personally find it a complete disaster when each
musician
uses ornamentations and varies on his side, without hearing to the others
and
without focussing onto the main sense of the melody. It is what we call
the "
group's sound " and that " group's sound " has to be respected and
followed! As
for ornamentations, I think every hurdy-gurdy player plays according to
his own
ability. Life itself, as Richard TAYLOR says, is a continuous progression,
in
the
hurdy-gurdy practice or in any other stuff! :-)
> 20) If you're playing without ornamentation all the time, you're wrong.
Once again, written and ' oral ' music (I mean usually " unwritten "
traditional
music) are not to be meant and played in exactly the same way, even if
both
types
of music have really many likenesses in common, even if they share many
features
and skills. In Baroque music, variations are usually written and
ornamentations
are indicated too when possible! Those indications can be completely
different
and vary much according to composers or manuals. Just try not to forget
that
playing traditional tunes with too many ornamentations and variations will
kill
the melody. If you play in solo, you can improvise according to your taste
or
skill but when you play with other musicians, always pay attention to the
others
and try to support and " serve " the melody than to use it for your own
pleasure
or even self-satisfaction! That will ruin the tune you are playing!
> 30) The ornamentation must be made when you want, and not only when your
> fingers can.
It is true! The ornamentation should be executed when you decide to and
not
accidentally! Just listen to other players you know, to friends (or to
CD's)
and
try to imitate what you like (or dislike!) in their playing! Never forget
that
improving one's skill regularly, practicing daily - in music and in any
other
domain or hobby - will make you progress more and more! Regularity in
practice,
auto-criticism and also hearing to the others are the key to success.
> 40) Try to put ornamentation on every note, or only on notes on the
beat, or
> only on the notes "off the beat", or each two notes, ...... and then
make
your
> choice.
Of course, in traditional music, there is an important part of
self-discovery.
You should try to use different skills even if you find that bothering and
even
if you mistake yourself. Don't forget that interesting ideas and
variations
often
come from mistakes!
> 50) You have to choice the most efficient ornamentation, not specially
the
> easiest one.
An " efficient " ornamentation should ' serve ' the melody! It should help
it
and
not weigh it out. Simple ornamentations are often the most effective ones
but
there are really many types of ornamentations, especially in Baroque
music; we
should discuss that in some other messages. Try not to use to many merging
kinds
of ornamentations.
> 60) If you don't like to play ornamentation on one special note, are you
sure
> that you're ornamentation is well played ? with a little more work, may
be it
> will sound better, and you will like it.
I am not sure I have understood what Maxou has typed there! Does he mean
specific
notes - in other words notes which are uneasy to play - by using the
expression
'
special note '? If so, I agree with that idea of practicing skills and
ornamentations you don't really like! A good hurdy-gurdy player should be
able
to
play all types of orn [aments]
[message ends here - some sort of error in transmission. If anyone has
the full text version, please send it to me. Alden.]
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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 14:40:20 -0500
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: Ornanananananamentation
Hello,
R. T. Taylor schrieb:
>(...)
>Playing out of tune is not considered a good ornament.
in some way playing out of tune can be a good ornament: Using the intonation
of a certain note for increasing the musical tension, making a sort of "bow"
or "waves" (related to vibrato) in playing long notes, playing notes that
"crie", glissandi between two neighbourkeys.
But sure a beginner has to learn how to play in tune controled before learning
how to use this control of intonation for ornamentation ;-) .
Simon Wascher
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Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 02:47:03 -0500
From: <ghironda _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Ornamentations and variation...
Dear Christophe
Thanks a lot for your interesting letter.
I will take what you wrote to go further
>It depends first on what you call ornamentation; don't forget that most of
>ornamentations are written in Baroque music.
I think that they used to write the ornaments expecially when they wanted
you to play "exactly" that way (harpsichord music, for exemple), or when the
music was intended to be played by beginners.
I got lot of baroque music without any kind of signs; and I think that it
was usual for a baroque player to play according to what was a well known
style (I mean, they HAD to play ornaments in baroque music anyway,
expecially when ornaments were not in the score :o)
>When you play in an '
>ensemble ', you really have to follow the general " meaning " or the main "
>message " of the pieces you are performing.
I aggree but in hurdy-gurdy and continuo sonatas, for exemple, the "main
message" is the gurdy part mostly...I think that a really good ensemble
should be able to follow the soloist, whatever he/she plays.
If continuo players know how "listen and follow" the music will be
marvelous...it happens to me several times and those times I played better
than usual, because I felt free to play my way, knowing that other musicians
were able to enjoy that way of playing.
It was quite strange anyway that I had those performances with unknown
player mostly, while it seldom happened in established ensembles :o)
>In Baroque music, variations are usually written and ornamentations
>are indicated too when possible!
I don't think variations were usually written. It usually never happens in
slow movements of baroque sonatas, while, according to a lot of baroque
methods (and common sense of taste :o) you should play some variation in
every ritornello.
If you play just the written variations (if any), so ALL Vivaldi's slow
movements will be boring :o).
>Sorry, Maxou, but the ' port de voix ' isn't really an ornamentation but
>rather a
>generic expression for any dynamic rendering of an ascendant or descendant
>group
>of joined notes! There are many kinds of ' port de voix ', actually...
right....Bouin, for exemple, used to call "port de voix" even a long
ascendant appoggiatura, followed by a short pince'....:o)
I'm looking forward to see your books (and to meet you too :o)
Marcello Bono
______________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 22:35:38 -0500
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Ornamentations and variation...
XTOFFF wrote:
> Hello everyone! :o)
>
>
> As a harpsichord and a hurdy-gurdy baroque and traditional player, I will try to
> give more precise advices about ornamentations and variations.
All of your comments were very well written. I am sure that your new book will be
interesting to read as well as helpful to improve how we play.
As I like to point out, it will also be very helpful to create a video to go along with
a book and CD. Or create and " Extended CD" that includes movie files. I just got a CD
of a Basque group that included a lot of information about the instruments, the players
and history of the music along with movie files of them in performances etc.
>
> > If you want to learn the correct words of ornamentation (pincé, port de voix,
> > mordant, trille, appogiature,....) , just read some books about the playing of
> > baroque music.
> I have those books and manuals and I can tell you that these are
> outstanding works! It will be a pleasure for me to make a list of them if you are
> interested!
That is a great idea and would be very helpful. And please give us advice on where we
might be able to buy them or see them.
> I will try to give some personal tips and advices towards a progression in the
> mastering of ornamentation, variation and also dissociation for the hurdy-gurdy
> skill a bit later if you want me to do that!
Well that is one of the best uses of this Hurdy Gurdy forum.
Now I have a short question for you.
You also play Bag Pipes. When I listen to you play, it sounds to me that the
ornamentation that you use on the bag pipes is different from the ornamentation that
you play for the Hurdy Gurdy.
Is that correct? And if it is true can you explain what they are.
A lot of us must listen to CD's and records to learn new tunes. This gives us a guide
for ornamentation. But many times the melody is played by bag pipes, accordion or
violin. And I assume that each instrument will adapt the playing style as well as the
ornamentation to each instrument.
It also seems to me that the ornamentation style changes when the instrument switches
between being a "lead instrument" and a backup or second voice instrument.
Thanks for your advice.
One last comment.......
When I first started to play Hurdy Gurdy, I asked the people that were much better
players than I was, how to play ornamentation, or " how did you just play that" or
" how did you get that sound".
The answers that I got most of the time were usually one of these:
I don't know.
Oh I am not sure how I play that. It is different every time I play.
I really don't know, I just play that way.
I'll try to brake it down for you. Let's see now, how do I do that? I really can not
play it slowly. Sorry, I really can not explain it.
So you can tell that it can be very hard for an interested player to improve when you
can not get useful answers.
So thanks again to Christophe, Maxou and all of the people that are helping all of us
out on this list.
r.t.
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Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 23:02:01 -0500
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: HG: Playing out of tune?????
Simon Wascher wrote:
> Hello,
>
> R. T. Taylor schrieb:
> >(...)
> >Playing out of tune is not considered a good ornament.
>
> in some way playing out of tune can be a good ornament: Using the intonation
> of a certain note for increasing the musical tension, making a sort of "bow"
> or "waves" (related to vibrato) in playing long notes, playing notes that
> "crie", glissandi between two neighbourkeys.
> But sure a beginner has to learn how to play in tune controled before learning
> how to use this control of intonation for ornamentation ;-) .
>
> Simon Wascher
Thanks for reminding me of that. I just went to a concert where two singers
created a very interesting ending to one part of song by careful control of the
two different pitches of their voices.
It really woke everyone up. They only did it once. And it was a great effect.
r.t.
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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 12:58:38 -0500
From: Judy V Olmstead <shanti _at_ thurston.com>
Subject: HG: Re: Ornaments
Hi everyone -- Having touched off this discussion of ornaments, I'm quite
interested to see that there isn't much discussion of ornaments in the
genral HG community, or at last not one with a common vocabulary! I have
studied some Irish music using my treble viola de gamba, and among those
musicians there is a very very clearly articulated dialogue on the subject
with specific names -- the cut versus the flick etc etc etc. I had
expected that there was something similar out there in HG land and I see
there isn't--which isn't a criticism, just an observation! And the Irish
musicians certainly don't use the dialogue to become mirror images of one
another--in fact the biggest insult a student in that tradition can give
her teacher is to play exactly the same, since the bardic song tradition on
which it's all based is one of constant variation and finding one's one
unique voice, albeit with the help of well-understood elements...
Our band is going to have the glorious pleasure of being part of a solstice
celebration in this state's capitol building's "rotunda," the huge inner
space under the dome with several flights of marble steps, two layers of
balconies, and an enormous Christmas tree. Wet but wonderful acoustics,
and we musicians and poets and speakers expect 300-400 people--so on with
the show, and here's a toast to making a "jolly pleasing noise!"
Judy Olmstead
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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 15:05:25 -0500
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: Ornaments
Hello list-eners,
Judy V Olmstead shanti _at_ thurston.com (Judy V Olmstead) schrieb:
>(...)there isn't much discussion of ornaments in the
In workshops or with my students ornamentation is an important matter, because
on the hurdy gurdy there is a strong connection between sound quality and
ornamentation and phrasing and ornamentation. Simply to play two or more
successive notes on the open melody strin,g or even on any other note, you
have to find a solution, and this solution will be a kind of ornamentation.
> genral HG community, or at last not one with a common vocabulary!
>(...)
There is no common vocabulary, because this moments discussion is a inter
lingual one and a inter traditional one to. An italian baroque music player
versus a french one (they still pass on the differences between french an
italian style of baroque music (notation) - as far as I know, french composers
usually wrote down what they wanted to be played, italians expected the
musicians to know how to fill the white notes), wescoast americans, central
french masters of their tradition, me - an austrian with an, as I quote it,
perfect but unusual instrument (a not so perfect ability to play it) and an
"outside" aproach to tradition.... . Even the Instrumentes used are different
to each other.
I know some terms to name certain ornamentations in German, Maxou and
Christoph know the right terms for their ornamentations in french, Marcello
in Italian, and there are people on this list who could tell us the english or
spanish terms as well, I bet :o) .
It would be a longterm project to develope a catalogue of hurdy gurdy
ornamentations as used in the different styles and traditions and a related
english/french/german/italian/spanish dictionary that gives all the names and
their translations - a wide field for musicologists and thouse who deal with
teaching hurdy gurdy.
This all leeds us to the limits of music notation - most of this problems
have been solved for the purpose of ethnomusicology - and far beond the limits
of mailinglist transferable music notation like abc.
...lot of work for this mailing list .... :-) .
C U
Simon Wascher
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Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 03:09:29 -0500
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: HG: test
Dear HG list,
This is a test to see if the new server is working properly, which it
hasn't been for a few days.
If the test works, I'll see it, so there's no need to reply to this message.
Alden
------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1999 03:20:06 -0500
From: Alden & Cali Hackmann <hurdy _at_ silverlink.net>
Subject: HG: New list address! Please Read!
Dear HG list,
Our service provider has moved all our files to a new server. For reasons
that I don't understand, it won't let me set up the mailing list with the
old address, hglist _at_ hurdygurdy.com.
Consequently we have a NEW address: hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com
Please send all new messages for the list to this new address, and change
your address book. I regret the inconvenience.
If you posted something to the list recently and didn't see it, please send
it again to this new address. Thank you for your patience.
Alden the ListAdmin
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Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 07:35:18 -0500
From: B&D Renaudin <d140557 _at_ club-internet.fr>
Reply-To: hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com
To: darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu
Subject: HG: Re: HG: New list address! Please Read!
Hi,
Please remind me of the subscription procedure to your list.
Thanks
Dominique
Musique Centre France :
http://perso.club-internet.fr/d140557/index.html
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 14:35:18 -0500
From: Dominic A White <ick _at_ awenet.com>
Subject: HG: Merry Christmas from the silent subscriber!
Hello All,
I've been pretty much an observer the entire time here, but I've learned a lot.
So have a very Merry Christmas and Safe New Year. Provided the world hasn't
plunged into anarchy, my new years resolution for 2000 will be to more
active in the list and activities.
Dominic
Dominic A. White www.awenet.com/~ick
MIDNIGHT PASS www.midnight-pass.com
"There is nothing so powerful as truth,--and often nothing so strange."
--Daniel Webster
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:10:44 -0500
From: Judy V Olmstead <shanti _at_ thurston.com>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Merry Christmas from the silent subscriber!
Hello All,
I think the best way to get the information I want is to ask all of you and
keep my fingers crossed that someone will reply. I'd like to get
information about the October 2000 "stage" that Les Brayauds will be
giving. Thanks, Judy
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:14:50 -0500
From: "Meador, John" <john.meador _at_ unistudios.com>
Subject: HG: RE: Re: HG: Merry Christmas from the silent subscriber!
JUDY:
Susanna and I recently received a flyer with the schedule of the stages for
Les Brayauds. We are planning on attending the stage in July of 2000.
If you e-mail me your FAX number, I can fax you a copy of this brochure.
John Meador
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:18:14 -0500
From: Jay Hurwitz <jay_hurwitz _at_ yahoo.com>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: RE: Re: HG: Merry Christmas from the silent subscriber!
John:
Where is this being held?
Thanks,
Jay
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 14:57:57 -0500
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: HG: Les Brayauds stages
Hello list-eners, hello John Meador,
please could you post the basic data where, when, what, contact, on this list?
(isn't there any URL or mail address within this brochure?)
thanx
C U
Simon Wascher
Ps: I 've no fax.
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 15:12:11 -0500
From: "Meador, John" <john.meador _at_ unistudios.com>
Subject: HG: Les Brayauds.......
To all and for all:
Pour l'information sur Les fete volcanic et L'Association "Les Brayauds"
utilizez votre ordinateur et allez a
http://www.multimania.com/brayauds/
John C. Meador
Universal Studios Information Technology Group
Universal Music and Video Division (UMVD)
Category Management Data Warehouse
john.meador _at_ unistudios.com 818-777-5325
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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:03:18 -0500
From: Alden Hackmann <darkstar _at_ u.washington.edu>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Re: HG: New list address! Please Read!
On Sun, 19 Dec 1999, B&D Renaudin wrote:
> Please remind me of the subscription procedure to your list.
Everyone who was on the list is still subscribed - you don't need to
resubscribe at the new address. You simply need to send all mail to the
new address, which is "hg _at_ hurdygurdy.com".
Alden the ListAdmin Guy
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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:32:20 -0500
From: <ghironda _at_ hotmail.com>
Subject: HG: hi
Hi dear friends
All my best for your year 2000
see you again January 10th
Marcello Bono
______________________________________________________
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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 20:15:47 -0500
From: "dave _at_ dpraties.freeserve.co.uk" <dave _at_ dpraties.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: HG: Belations - felicitations
Hi,
Best wishes to all for the festive season, and (very) belated thanks
for the various replys to my questions about pick-ups on hurdy
gurdies. The information was very usefull, specially yours Alden,
about the siting of the dog pick-up on the Siorat. My experiments
continue, and if I come up with anything usefull, I'll post it here!
Cheers,
Dave.
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 20:04:56 -0500
From: Theodore Bick <theobick _at_ earthlink.net>
Subject: HG: Where the string touches the wheel
Hello vielle players,
How do you like to set up the way your strings (especially the chanters)
touch the wheel rim? I heard that some players ( including Marcello) set
it up so that the string touches heavier on the left side of the wheel
(towards the head) than the right side. What would be the purpose of
this? I always tried to set it up so that the string exerts about equal
pressure across the rim of the wheel and I have one instrument that is
set up for the chanters to actually touch the wheel heavier on the right
side (towards the bridge), but this is because of other geometric
peculiarities. What results have people gotten by experimenting with
this? Thanks, Theo
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 03:42:12 -0500
From: R. T. Taylor <rtaylor _at_ amp.csulb.edu>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: RE: Re: HG: Merry Christmas from the silent subscriber!
"Meador, John" wrote:
> JUDY:
>
> Susanna and I recently received a flyer with the schedule of the stages for
> Les Brayauds. We are planning on attending the stage in July of 2000.
>
> If you e-mail me your FAX number, I can fax you a copy of this brochure.
>
> John Meador
Gosh, I don't have a FAX. What am I to do?
I guess I will have to make a visit.
r.t.
---------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 04:13:40 -0500
From: Simon Wascher <simon.wascher _at_ chello.at>
Subject: HG: Re: HG: Where the string touches the wheel
Hello,
Theodore Bick schrieb:
> (...)How do you like to set up the way your strings (especially the chanters)
> touch the wheel rim?
My personal setup is to have the the strings parallel with the surface of the wheel.
I want to have the instrument adjusted in a way, where you get a clear tone
from the first moment when you start to turn the handle: to be able to play
piano, with a very slow speed of the wheel. So there must not be to much
pressure on the string. So, having as much as possible contact and less
pressure gives a good tone and very good dynamic range. From a point where the
string and the wheel are paralell, the angle which the string makes towards
the bridge should not exeed the diameter of the string. (it is not easy for me
to discribe this in english), the distance between the point where the string
contacts the wheel and the bridge is about 17 to 18 mm. If the pressure of the
string is low the string tends to produce more harmonics, if the pressure is
too low you will have troubles to get the basic notes besides the harmonics.
High pressure disturbs the harmonics.
Using just one side of the wheel for contact means using the possible
traction an therefore sound generation just in parts. But there may be good
reasons to do so: There is an optimum where the bow/wheel shold touch the
string for every single note, the violin player will change this position of
the bow playing different notes. So, the position of the wheel is a compromise
and depends on which keys you use most, want to get the best sound off. The
players, the instrument makers, have somtimes differing ideas about that, so
putting the point where the string touches the wheel to one edge of the wheel
may be caused in the whish to change this original built in setup. This is
part of the complex setup of the hurdy gurdy, depending on things like string
material, instrument makers qualitys, music style .... .
Simon Wascher
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